Baseball Board & PC Games (Merged Threads)

[SmedIndy]

Skip -

Wondering if there are others out there playing Diamond Mind. I'd like to discuss what you do with it and how you are playing. I have three computers I use some (work, home, laptop for travel) and I have leagues set up on each one.

[Skipper Steve]

Baseball History should be fine - - I'll move it there.

For those who will ask "what?" see:
http://www.diamond-mind.com/products/overview.htm

[BuzzBuzzard]

It's gonna be tough to beat Play Station.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
It's gonna be tough to beat Play Station.

Is that what Pee Wee has named his tallywacker?

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve


Is that what Pee Wee has named his tallywacker? COntinuing way :topic: but Paul Reubens had a fairly large role in Blow with Johnny Depp. I'm pretty sure it was his first role since getting busted, but it is not the same. He'll always be Pee Wee to me.

[SmedIndy]

Playstation isn't even close. Not the same game at all.

Diamond Mind is like APBA or Strat (actually it resembles Pursue the Pennant).

It's an outstanding simulation that takes a lot of factors into account and is pretty realistic. You can manage just like a real manager.

[Skipper Steve]

Tell us more!

[SmedIndy]

Well, if you want to you can go pitch-by-pitch.

You can force yourself to "warm up" pitchers in the pen before putting them in.

You can play with injuries or without.

You can quickly set lineups and play a simulated season quickly.

You can load in all the transactions for a year and the program will make them for you.

You can even make your own teams and rate additional players.

I don't use pitch by pitch, nor injuries and I do my own transactions since I take the role of manager/gm for each team. I don't trade players away though.

It doesn't take a lot of memory. For the younger generation, it looks boring, but for those who want to test their baseball acument its a great game.

[Skipper Steve]

But, you are "playing" against yourself or the the program, no?

[sweaver]

I have a fondness for the Sierra Front Page Sports computer game, but it had annoying bugs and after three versions, they don't make it anymore. I like Strat-O-Matic too, played the board version for years. What is the best out there now? I am not interested in arcade play, I want the best simulation possible.

[SmedIndy]

Yes, I am playing against myself, because that way I'm consistent in what moves I make. And, I'm a control freak!

:D

But it does have a handy "speedup" factor that will finish games for you quickly if your wife calls you away for, well, whatever she calls you away for! :cool:

[SmedIndy]

And you can play vs. the computer too, forgot to mention that. Or, you can have the computer play the games you don't care about. (But I care about 'em all, really I do, even the 76 Rangers vs. 76 Brewers)!

[SmedIndy]

If you followed my other thread, I'm a big fan of Diamond Mind. Once in a while it gets players on incredible hot streaks for some reason or another.

Someone else I know loves the APBA computer game.

Still, I can't forget my days playing APBA, when I had Mickey Brantley in his only good year.

[Skipper Steve]

How much time does it take to play a game?

[sweaver]

Another important consideration is cost. How much is Diamond Mind, and those other things? Can you only play it once, or multiple times?

[Skipper Steve]

I'm still waiting for Lee to invent the Sinins Simulator.

[SmedIndy]

The way I play 10-15 minutes, if that. All depends on the offense, or if you get distracted.

[SmedIndy]

Here's the link to Diamond Mine

http://www.diamond-mind.com/products/overview.htm

As far as APBA, a Google search using that in quotes should find it easily.

[nightal]

I know it's probably not the best, but Strat-O-Matic has given me many years of enjoyment both the board and computer games

[Yogi#8Fan]

From someone who's never been there or done that, could I see how this pitcher would likely fare against this batter? Like Seaver vs Big Mac? Or is it just your own set of players that are pre-programmed, or do you say what kind of players you'd like?
:confuse:

[TGwynn19]

Diamond Mind Baseball is the format that STATS uses to run Bill James Classic Baseball and Diamond Legends. ESPN seems to have entered into a contract with Diamond Mind because they are now currently running a sim that is almost identical to the other two offerd by STATS. What is really interesting is that all of us are able to purchase the software from Diamond Mind to run our own leagues. I have not been on their site for about 4 months, but as of then you could purchase the software that would allow you to run a 12 team league season. I hope i am recalling the right info, and i believe it is at www.diamondmind.com

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
From someone who's never been there or done that, could I see how this pitcher would likely fare against this batter? Like Seaver vs Big Mac? Or is it just your own set of players that are pre-programmed, or do you say what kind of players you'd like?
:confuse:

Well, you can play in different ways. Basically, it gives you a top teams of all time with the game, plus you can buy individual seasons. And from those seasons you can do whatever you want.

So, if you had the money you could get a lot of seasons and match up McGwire 98 to Seaver 69. The game adjusts to the park and normalizes to whatever era you decide to play in.

But its basically great for recreating entire seasons (say 1971), or breaking up a season and taking individual players and making your own teams (like we did with APBA).

And the link is www.diamond-mind.com

[pjl7]

I am a two decade plus APBA player who now uses the BB Windows game. The tools are virtually limitless which makes it an outstanding sim. In fact, using the Harwell CD, I actually listen to games while I work sometimes.

I see only three "flaws" in APBA which I've learned to live with but wonder if other games do these things any better.

1. It undervalues defense, I suspect by quite a bit.

2. Pitching kills singles hitters and barely impact power meaning that in any replay with good pitching the high average hitters underperform and the power guys all hit .229 with 104 hits, 71 of them for extra bases.

3. It does "normalize" numbers into the scenario they are being played in (i.e. Ty Cobb will hit some homers if put into 1987) but it doesn't normalize them on the way out of the season in which they happened which means that there's no way to remove the Coors Field bias from Larry Walker regardless of what seasonal conditions you want him to play under.

Thoe irritations aside, I love the game and highly recommend it.

[Xanadu Dragon]

I know ya'll will think this strange, knowing me, but, I have never played this game - ever. Feel like I missed something.

Strat-O-Matic League Begins 40th Year
By HAL BOCK
.c The Associated Press

GLEN HEAD, N.Y. (AP) - Just days before pitchers and catchers report, Strat-O-Matic baseball loyalists lined up in a railroad station parking lot on Friday for opening day of the popular game's 40th season.

This is a ritual, followed annually by players who travel from as far away as Ohio and Florida, Canada and Kentucky, addicts to a game Hal Richman invented 40 years ago.

``We had 75 people in a blizzard one year,'' he said. Friday's climate was kinder and the crowd much larger than that.

Opening day is no small matter in the Strat-O-Matic world and this one was extra special because of the anniversary.

Bill Sindelar, one of Richman's first customers, made a nine-hour drive from Cleveland for the occasion. ``It's my first opening day,'' he said, sounding solemn, almost emotional about the occasion.

Over the years, the game has attracted a loyal following. Some of the customers are celebrities. Moviemaker Spike Lee and actor Tim Robbins are players. So are sportscasters Bob Costas and Jon Miller. Ex-major leaguers Jim Kaat, Dale Murphy and Cal Ripken, Jr., too.

An hour before the faithful were allowed in the small building to pick up their games, Richman unveiled a 3-foot mock-up of the new Barry Bonds card - the most prolific offensive card in the game's history.

Richman is in awe of Bonds' 73-home run season. ``Bonds hit a home run every 6.5 at-bats,'' he said. ``Babe Ruth was one every nine at-bats. The average is one every 30.5. Barry Bonds is Roy Hobbs.''

And so Bonds' 2001 card is weighted accordingly. The fans in the parking lot recognized that immediately. There were appreciative oohs and aahs from the crowd.

Kenny Marino would have been hooting and hollering. He played Strat-O-Matic religiously, enrolled in a number of leagues. He kept meticulous statistics and even built a model ballpark. Each year, he made the 90-minute drive from Monroe, N.Y. for opening day.

On Friday, Katrina Marino made that drive for her husband, a New York City fireman who was killed in the World Trade Center attacks on Sept. 11. Richman presented her with the game her husband would have been picking up.

One of the Strat-O-Matic loyalists is Philadelphia Phillies outfielder Doug Glanville. ``He complained one year about his defensive rating,'' Richman said. ``I gave him a two and he wanted a one.''

The lowest defensive rating in Planet Strat-O-Matic is a five. That was the number assigned to Gregg Jefferies when he was unfortunate enough to try playing left field in Philadelphia.

In a town where they have booing down to a science, this was unbelievable ammunition.

``The fans kept yelling at him, `You're a five! You're a five!' `` Richman said.

Poor Jefferies stood there with a quizzical look on his face, wondering what that was all about. Glanville knew, though.

``He was over there in center field,'' Richman said, ``doubled over laughing.''

[P Villager]

Ah, well, Strat is the kinder, gentler competition for those of us lacking the fortitude to gamble our wages in roto leagues.

I was 26 when I first saw the SOM game. I'd never been a fan of baseball. Only vaguely understood that Ruth, Williams, Mantle were pretty good in their times, and Boggs must have been good cuz he hit for a high batting average. Left/right splits, and what's this ops and sabermetric stuff?

Point is, my entire appreciation for the game of baseball is rooted in Strat. Made me learn the game from the numbers out. Allows for a more meaningful perspective when I do go out to the ballpark. Turned me into a fan. Made me buy that big old Bill James Almanac, minor league scouting reports, Baseball America... made me go way down south to Florida (or Quebec South) just for the spring training feel. Made me some friends in this city.

Well done, Hal Richman! Thanks!

Can't wait for my Bonds card to arrive on my doorstep!

[Xanadu Dragon]

P V - welcome to the forum!

Great post - thanks for sharing. Amazing. That is kinda coming in through the back door, but, the important thing is that you made it!

Ain't Baseball Great?

[Old Judge]

I have only played Strat-O a couple of times, but I grew up with Sports Iluustrated baseball, and played literally thousands of games in the old neighborhood. I miss those times...

I have been looking for a computer version that I can draft against and play against. I don't mean play with a joystick, I mean set lineups and make trades and make substitutions, etc. during the games. Anybody know of one (or want to come to my house for an SI draft)? If only I still had the game...

Whimsically yours
Rick

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by Old Judge
Anybody know of one (or want to come to my house for an SI draft)? If only I still had the game...



Check out:
http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1301

[Baudib]

I never played Strat-O-Matic, per se, but I played the Sports Illustrated game and I also was in a league with a bunch of guys who had invented a game and had been playing it 30 years ago. Same principles, very complex numbers system, you rolle three pairs of different-colored dice, and match up the rolls to a chart that corresponds with the selected pitching and batting options.

Since then I've become an avid Bill James Classic Baseball/Diamond Legends owner, but there's nothing like being actively involved in every decision and having dice in hand.

[pathogan]

Cant beleive with all the uber seam heads here that strato was not popular[maybe im just older then everyone else]...actually, i played[and still play with my older daughter] APBA,not strato,though both are terrific, and simply good fun...are board games passe`?

[Skip]

I'd like to see this thread switch to a discussion of the best baseball sims of the past and present, unless thats been done before. I'd like to hear memories of sims enjoyed as kids, as well as opinions of the best sim(s) available today. You ok with a switchover, boss-man?

I'd also like to see some thought given into breakdown between computer based and board/card based. There's something about sitting in the middle of the floor with all your cards around that sitting at a PC cant replace. (Sort of like the old D&D, but I wont go there).

I played APBA some as a kid, but spent more time on another that after racking my brain for 15min cant think of. Enjoyed both. There's also Diamond Mind, Strat-O-Matic, and others to consider today.

Skip.

[sweaver]

Skip, I tried to start a thread a couple months ago on the best baseball sim games, but it died from lack of interest. I have played Sierra's Front Page Sports Baseball, which is cool but has serious flaws, and has now been discontinued. I know of no other good software simulation available.

I started playing Strat when I was about 13. Just finished selling my old cards on ebay. Made piles o' cash on them. It was a cool game I played for a long time, but finally didn't have enough time for anymore.

[Old Judge]

I'm in, Skip!

I am really interested in hearing about computer sims because I don't know them and asking the young geeks at CompUSA doesn't get me anything but a comparison of graphics.

I started playing SI in 1970 (based on '69) season. In fact, I bought it at a bookstore the same night I got Ball Four. That version of SI had a large tri-fold sheet for each team. My father and I would pull a team 'out of a hat' and play one game of 'World Series' each night when he got home from work.

The next one I got was the All-Time Team version which had a sheet for each franchise. Later on on I got the individual player cards based on the 1972 season (G. Perry and Carlton were tough!).

That game is the easiest to play that I've seen, but the limitations come along with the simplicity: defense was only a small factor, for instance.

I later played Avalon Hill's Statis Pro Baseball. Also easy, and defense was given a little bigger role. Over all, I prefer it to SI.
My experience with Strat-o was that it took getting used to all the decision making, but it was certainly stronger in defensive control. I never played it enough to get comfortable though.

[RichG]

I started with APBA in 1966 then shifted to Strat in 1970, as did the rest of my neighborhood.

Played Strat through college then joined an APBA league in the late '70s. Like the man looking for TRUTH I went through a bevy of games and joined a play by mail league in 1979.

Let's see, first a game called ASG, then Replay (these two faded away) then a descendant of ASG called Diamond Dreams. That game bid adieu last winter so our league is switching to Diamond Mind. It looks nice and the company seems stable.

I've had lots of fun in the league. There's 24 members in the current year's league and about 10 of us have been together since 1980. We're getting ready to start a season based on last year's results and also have two other retro leagues playing seasons of the past during the regular offseason. We recently finished the 1952 season and are in the midst of the 1967 year.

The 'goal' is to play each season from 1948 upwards and so far we've finished 1948-52, 1961-66, and 1979 - 2000. The nice thing is we're not 'cutthroat' and everybody seems to enjoy it for what it is, a nice hobby.

[SmedIndy]

I really like Diamond Mind. It continues Pursue the Pennant's ideas and has a lot of good features.

[Skip]

The old game I couldnt remember sounds like SI. Cant be sure.

Does anyone play board/card based games today other than when in the rare retro mood? Who offers a card based game of quality (I think APBA does both?)?

[RichG]

Originally posted by Skip


Does anyone play board/card based games today other than when in the rare retro mood? Who offers a card based game of quality (I think APBA does both?)?

Skip,

Stratomatic still has a card version and just released their current set.

APBA might be in trouble. A friend told me they haven't even sent out a 'new card notice' yet and it always used to come by the end of the year.

[mandamin]

I played SOM, the card/board/dice version, from about 1992 through 1997, going through occasional obsessive periods of a few weeks where that's all I'd ever do. I love it, but the thing where the outcome of any plate appearance is dependent on either the pitcher or the batter, and never both, kind of bugged me. I had games where the 1994 version of Greg Maddux would walk six guys in six innings, just because I kept rolling a 1-3 when guys who walked a lot were up. And it seemed a little out of whack, at least in the '94 and '97 cards, I remember; I'd draft a six-team league, play through part of a schedule, and then quit when I realized that the HR leaders had hit 20-23 homers in 30 games off of the best 20% of the pitchers in the majors. But it was really fun anyway.
Nowadays I do a similar on-again, off-again thing with Diamond Mind. It's much more consistent, although top relievers seem to have an obscene number of late-inning blowups, and like someone else said, players will get on absolutely out-of-this-world hot (or, more often in my experience, cold) streaks. But it's a very fun, mostly realistic game, highly recommended...

[LeGrandOrange]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
I really like Diamond Mind. It continues Pursue the Pennant's ideas and has a lot of good features.

That's actually the same game pretty much, they changed the name somewhere around 1995. I'm quite familiar with PTP/DMB, I was in a local DMB league for some 6 years. The rules were dodgy in retrospect, and the commissioner had the most moronic playoff system ever, but I had some good cheap thrills from it before he thought about instituting a salary cap, then it was like "*expletive deleted* this" and I quit. The fact my team sucked every year (in the 12 years, there are two short seasons we do per year, I NEVER had a team above .500. Thanks to the stupid system, I had a World Series appearance and something else resembling one. And BOTH times lost to the commissioner, who essentially had murderer's row) might've had something to do with it.
I'm in various online DMB leagues right now (ones that don't require me to have the game). The thing about DMB leagues online is that the commissioners I always find are somewhat scatter-brained. :) Never the less, they're fun. And I can tolerate losing in those leagues, I'm used to being the lovable losers by now.

[TGwynn19]

WhatifSports.com has a pretty fun sim game as well. It only costs 9.95 a season. 3 games a night six nights a week. In the box score there is a play-by-play recap as well. For 9.95 it can keep you entertained.

[Throwback]

Has anyone ever heard of Old Time Baseball? It's a computer baseball game from Stormfront Studios (makers of Tony La Russa Baseball). It had a regular play a game or season mode, as in arcade-type play, but the real appeal of it was the simulation aspect, and the fact that it included basically every player from 1871-1981.

[SmedIndy]

Tony LaRussa has a game?

Does it take four hours to play, and has 40 man rosters so you can change pitchers between each batter??

:D

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Tony LaRussa has a game?

Instructions written by George Will, no doubt, telling you how smart the game is..............:rolleyes:

[LeGrandOrange]

Originally posted by Throwback
Has anyone ever heard of Old Time Baseball? It's a computer baseball game from Stormfront Studios (makers of Tony La Russa Baseball). It had a regular play a game or season mode, as in arcade-type play, but the real appeal of it was the simulation aspect, and the fact that it included basically every player from 1871-1981.

Do you know where I can find that? I have been looking for that ever since an Abandonware site posted it...and corrupted the .zip file. (they have this thing about posting .zip's of .zip's with .ace's, and they had 3 corrupt .zip's in the .zip. Just make a big zip like everyone else, yeesh.)
As for the original LaRussa game...seeing how, unlike the rest of the forum, I've actually heard of it! :) Anyway, LaRussa actually did some pretty good baseball games. The funny thing is that at least with LaRussa 2, you're only allowed 10 pitchers active during season games. Has LaRussa EVER had a staff with 10 pitchers? :p
Never the less, even if LaRussa 2 is dated, I still find that quite fun, and still better then anything with graphics anyone wants to put out. I prefer using Earl Weaver games, even if Earl Weaver 2 that I use looks a little bit ugly, but that's another story.

[Throwback]

I don't know of anywhere you could find it nowadays. It came out in '94 and it doesn't always work to well withe newer computers (I think it doesn't work with Windows '98. I can play it on 2000, but the action game immediately freezes up on '98). You might try going to stormfrontstudios.com. You can contact them there. I did, and asked if there was to be an update. Inexplicably, there is not.

As for Tony 2, I have that, and I've never ran into the problem of 10 player rosters. I know 3 is supposed to be a significant improvement, but 2 didn't bother me none.

[LeGrandOrange]

I'm a firm believer in 15-10 myself, and this is only a problem when I feel like being a stat freak and wanting to recreate past seasons. Like when I want to do 2000. It's real difficult doing 2000 Cleveland in LaRussa 2 because a lot of their players jumped to other teams, and you have to put guys like Bill Selby and Chan Perry active.
Never the less, even with it being 9 years old, LaRussa still kicks butt, and I still like playing it. :)
Hopefully, I can find a working Oldtime Baseball, even if it's a mere CD-rip. Not like I'm going to find an .iso of the game. :)

[sweaver]

For the strat nuts, here's a link to a nice article on espn's website about the debut of the new cards and founder Hal Richman.
http://espn.go.com/magazine/wulf_20020213.html

[pathogan]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Tony LaRussa has a game?

Does it take four hours to play, and has 40 man rosters so you can change pitchers between each batter??

:D

Very ,very GOOD!!!!!!!!!!LOL

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by pathogan


Very ,very GOOD!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please tip your servers and bartenders. I'm here until Thursday!

[satchel]

I went hunting for this thread because I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying this game. My baseball video-game collection is a little outdated; all I have are two N64 cartridges, one with 1998 rosters and one with 1999 rosters. What attracts me to DiamondMind are two main features - the expandability (that you can order and create new rosters) and the realism. The console games emphasize kewl graphics and are fun but are too damn easy. I'm thinking DiamondMind could satisfy the cranial baseball fix, and I'll still have the console games for when I am in the mood. Smed, it sounds like you are a true believer. Should I go for it?

[BigKlu]

Here's something I can contribute a little bit to, anyhow.

I was an avid "Pursue the Pennant" player. My first experience with "fantasy" baseball was in an after-school league where we drafted players from the 1989 season and went head to head. There were twelve of us divided into two leagues. I lost the championship series to my best friend in seven games - all one run games. Rob Dibble was Ed's closer - and a stud for the Reds IRL back then - and it left a bitter taste to have someone from my real-life hometown strike out the side in the ninth to keep me from coming back to win the game. *sigh* Great memories.

Anyway...the creator/designer/programmer of "Pursue the Pennant" changed the name to "Diamond Mind Baseball" in the early 1990s; it's the same product.

I've been aware of the existence of DMB for four years now and I still haven't purchased a copy of the game. (It's expensive when you're not sure it's the right one for you.) My wife consented this summer about me purchasing a new baseball computer game - I'm still using the Tony LaRussa series.

:D

Her only stipulation was that I had to choose. Which one did I want? Strat-O-Matic or DMB? I've spent a few months going over both games. I was very tempted to go with Strat because their game is so "transparent" - studying the board game will allow you to develop an awareness of what "percentages" for success tend to be. But I figured I'd like the challenge of a game where I couldn't "count cards" much more. I understand Hal Richman and his staff (at Strat) spend many man hours personally rating the cards/players for his game, but DMB does the same and does - from all I've read and discussed with people - a better job of things. Tom Tippet is a great guy and the class and customer support inherent in his products and company are first-rate. I picked DMB.

I've been putting off the order, figuring I might wait to see if a new version comes out this winter, with the 2002 season disk. Anyhow...I highly recommend Diamond Mind to anyone wanting the best product on the market. Purchasing a copy for myself is high on my "To Do" list this fall.

Out of curiosity...would anyone be interested in starting a DMB league of some kind or other?

[SmedIndy]

Yes, I'd recommend Diamond Mind wholeheartedly. It's easy to play and you can customize leagues and teams to your hearts content.

[poorme]

I would recommend DMB. A friend of mine has Strat-O and I prefer DMB. also DMB gets the new season disks out sooner after the real season ends

It's not perfect - no game is. my biggest beef is that it doesn't make you warm a reliever up before you put him in the game. You can set it to do so, but only if you are playing another human. apparently, they havn't figured out how to teach a computer how to warm up guys in the pen - basically how to think ahead several batters.

another thing is it's kind of expensive - like $70-$80 including the latest season disk. additional disks are around $20.

also it is easy to play once you figure it out. there's no manual so you just kind of mess with it until you figure it out.

[satchel]

Originally posted by poorme

It's not perfect - no game is. my biggest beef is that it doesn't make you warm a reliever up before you put him in the game. You can set it to do so, but only if you are playing another human. apparently, they havn't figured out how to teach a computer how to warm up guys in the pen - basically how to think ahead several batters.

This is surprising becuase even my crappy little All-Star 2000 for N64 requires you to warm up pitchers, and the computer opponent, while it makes stupid and pointless pitching changes, does warm up pitchers ahead of time.

[poorme]

Originally posted by satchel
while it makes stupid and pointless pitching changes, does warm up pitchers ahead of time.

there lies the problem. tom tippett (mr. dmb) sent me an e-mail explaining that they haven't been able to train the computer to do it properly.

[Skip]

Merging two old threads and pushing this up ... just curious what newcomers (and everyone else) have to add to the discussion at this point in time. I've still not taken the plunge.

BTW - The 'Skip' to whom the opening post in this amalgam was addressed is not me, it is Max Power in his previous incarnation as Skipper Steve.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by satchel
This is surprising becuase even my crappy little All-Star 2000 for N64 requires you to warm up pitchers, and the computer opponent, while it makes stupid and pointless pitching changes, does warm up pitchers ahead of time. yeah, but then it does stupid things like bring in the 'closer' in the 4th inning