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Ytown Tribe fan
01-22-2002, 01:37 PM
Minnie belongs in the Hall of Fame. Period.

He was 26 before he could break the color line (in 1949), right after Larry Doby in the AL. The Tribe kept him in the minors in 1950 before trading him to the White Sox, where he had his rookie season in 1951, at the age of 28.

Minnie was robbed of the 1951 Rookie-of-the-Year award by voters who thought the Yanks' Gil McDougald was more valuable. Compare their numbers and you will see how ludicrous that choice was.

From 28 on, he was one of the greatest ballplayers of all time. He scored over 1100 runs and drove in over 1000 RBI, and gained over 3000 total bases, all after his 28th birthday.

The only players to accomplish those feats are all in the Hall, with the exceptions of Darrell Evans, Dwight Evans, and players not yet eligible. (Pete Rose had fewer than 1000 RBI after his 28th Birthday).

The Hall has routinely made exceptions for Black players who had partial careers due to the color line, as well as great Black players who never played in the majors.

Minnie was born in the wrong year, plain and simple. If he had been born a couple of years later, he would be in the Hall since he would have had 2 or 3 more years in the majors. If he had been born a few years earlier, he would be in the Hall as a primarily Negro League selection.

Take a minute or two to look over his career accomplishments -- there can be no doubt that he was a great player before his 28th birthday, and he was -- but not in the major leagues. There is no doubt that he was a great player while he was in the majors, and for many years.

From 1951-1960, only Yogi Berra and Mickey Mantle were more productive AL hitters. Look it up, it's true. Minnie was more productive than Ted Williams, Larry Doby, Al Rosen, Nellie Fox, and every other AL batter in the 50's, other than Yogi and the Mick.

He belongs in the Hall.

Xanadu Dragon
01-22-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
From 1951-1960, only Yogi Berra and Mickey Mantle were more productive AL hitters. Look it up, it's true. Minnie was more productive than Ted Williams, Larry Doby, Al Rosen, Nellie Fox, and every other AL batter in the 50's, other than Yogi and the Mick.

He belongs in the Hall.

YTF - welcome to the forum!

Not sure if Williams and Rosen are getting a fair shake here - they barely played in that time period. But, there's some bite behind your bark:

AMERICAN LEAGUE
1951-1960

OWP
1 Mickey Mantle .809
2 Minnie Minoso .666
3 Yogi Berra .646
4 Eddie Yost .605
5 Jackie Jensen .591
6 Harvey Kuenn .573
7 Gil McDougald .570
8 Nellie Fox .545
9 Pete Runnels .527

Any idea why Campy got in the Hall, he came up about the same age as Minnie (I think), and Minoso didn't?

sweaver
01-22-2002, 02:10 PM
2 MVP's and a bunch of pennants have something to do with it.

Minoso should be in, but he's got one foot in each of two places, and not enough of a boost from either place to get in on that basis alone. Wonder if the new Vet's committee will give him his due?

SmedIndy
01-22-2002, 02:57 PM
Maybe Minnie's also hurt by his "appearances" with the White Sox.

He's a HOF caliber player. Will anyone recognize it?

nyy26wc
01-22-2002, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by sweaver
2 MVP's and a bunch of pennants have something to do with it.



You've probably identified the reason, but just to correct the record, Campanella won 3 MVPs.

sweaver
01-22-2002, 08:58 PM
Whoops! Just goes to show how badly my memory is slipping.

Ytown Tribe fan
01-24-2002, 07:52 AM
Probably the other thing that hurts him is that he played "only" 3 seasons in the American Negro Leagues before the majors let him in. He was an All-Star 3rd-baseman for the NY Cuban Giants in 1947 and 1948, but played in Cuba before 1946.

Bill Veeck may have unintentionally hurt Minnie's chances by trying to give him a few appearances every decade since his retirement. The Commissioner actually had to ban him from playing in the '90s, I believe.

Xanadu Dragon
01-24-2002, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
Bill Veeck may have unintentionally hurt Minnie's chances by trying to give him a few appearances every decade since his retirement. The Commissioner actually had to ban him from playing in the '90s, I believe.

Not sure if "ban" is the right term, but, the Chisox were told to cut that out.

Xanadu Dragon
01-26-2002, 11:39 AM
As a result of this thread, I've moved Minnie from
SIGNIFICANT ACHIEVERS from the Postwar Era
to
UNDER APPRECIATED from the Postwar Era
in the NetShrine Gallery.

Fuzzy Bear
01-26-2002, 12:13 PM
If Minnie Minoso had retired after the 1962 season, he would have had a lifetime BA at or over .300. Given the decline of batting averages in the mid 60s, the B.B.W.A.A. would have viewed his application for Cooperstown immortality more favorably. (After all, how could you deny Minoso Cooperstown in 1968 if your league batting CHAMPION hits .301???)

Bill James once ran a computer projection to show what kind of stats a player like Minoso would have compiled if he came to the majors at 21. (I believe he did this by running his Brock6 projections backward.) I can't find the actual article on this, but Minoso's stats, under those conditions, included a BA over .300 with career offensive totals that were unquestionably HOF caliber. Minoso was a great player at his best. His delay in reaching the big leagues was not his fault. He was a better player than many more renowned HOF outfielders, and he played his entire career in pitchers' parks.

The Veterans Committee has elected its share of Good Ol' Cronies and marginal white candidates. (The Frankie Frisch & Co. group of Giant/Cardinal selections come to mind.) The Veterans Committee needs to address a few cases of great players whose major league careers were cut short on the front end by racial segregation and discrimination. (The recent selection of Larry Doby is an example of addressing such a situation.) Minoso's election would not dilute HOF standards, and would be part of baseball's necessary amends to African-Americans for their inexcusable policy of racial segregation and discrimination prior to 1947.