Calvin Edwin Ripken Jr.

[Crash Course]

He played in the major leagues from 1981 to 2001.

[KCBOOMER]

Not the offensive force over his career that he was reputed to be, he still was an outstanding SS. His WARP3 score is a monstrous 169.

[crazydiamond]

yes, and here's why:
only 161 career RCAA, which is good but not great
however... 5 years of 20+ RCAA including a 29 in 1984 and 58 in 1991
production value went way down late in his career
first 10 years of his career (not including 1981, 39 AB), he compiled 215 RCAA
last 10 years, he compiled -54 RCAA
3184 hits, 431 HR, 603 2B, 1695 RBI
main flaw was his knack for hitting into double plays, a stat in which he leads the all-time list
then, of course, there's his fielding abilities
for me, that adds a good 80-100 to his RCAA total, putting him at around 250, which makes him an easy yes

[nyy26wc]

No.

Super overrated player.

The league average player over Ripken's career had 3014 hits. So, the fact that he had over 3000 isn't much a big deal. Ripken doesn't make the top 300 in hits above the league average.

Ripken had a 10 year span in which he had -54 RCAA, but had to play every single day for 7 of them. Not because of performance. But, rather because of entrentchness.

If a Yankees player did that, this forum would be rightfully be filled with tons of contempt for him.

Let's look at 2 naked players--

Naked player was #1 was described in this forum as "Most overrated player of the 1970s?" and "I cannot think of a more overrated player in the 70's,"

Naked player was #2 the most overrated player of his era.

Naked player #1 had 163 RCAA. Naked player #2 had 161 RCAA.

But, when naked player #1 puts on a uniform saying "Garvey" on his back, he gets 31.58% of the vote. When naked player #2 puts on a uniform saying "Ripken" on his back, he gets 100% of the vote minus me.

[KCBOOMER]

I think Lee's arguments show the weakness of RCAA. It takes zero account of the postion played or the quality of the play at the position. Sure Ripken isn't the hitter some think he is but consider that as a SS Ripken ranks:

Hits - 2nd
Hr's - 1st (ARod may pass him someday)
RBI's - 2nd
Runs - 2nd
EBH - 1st
Games - 1st
AB's - 1st
TB's - 1st

Now he did this as a SS. That makes the value of said performance even greater. I grant that Lee's "league average" comments have merit, but put it into the context of a SS performing that long, at that level. And we are talking about an SS who was a quality defender (not Ozzie Smith, but better than average).

To exclude him from NetShrine (a second tier meritocracy) is to say only SS's of truly HoF credentials need apply.

[KCBOOMER]

But, when naked player #1 puts on a uniform saying "Garvey" on his back, he gets 31.58% of the vote. When naked player #2 puts on a uniform saying "Ripken" on his back, he gets 100% of the vote minus me.


Garvey - WARP3 = 84
Ripken - WARP3 = 169

I think that is a sufficient difference for even us mere mortals to tell apart.

[nyy26wc]

I think that is a sufficient difference for even us mere mortals to tell apart.

I think it is a sufficient difference to show more evidence that warp allows a player to inflate his totals while playing at a below average rate.

[nyy26wc]

I think Lee's arguments show the weakness of RCAA. It takes zero account of the postion played or the quality of the play at the position. Sure Ripken isn't the hitter some think he is but consider that as a SS Ripken ranks:

The relevant question is where he ranks as a hitter.

Would you look at Ripken's defensive stats and ask where he ranks, among players who hit 3rd in the order putouts, assists, errors, DP? Either do that or don't compare his hitting totals based on what fielding spot he is located when he's not hitting.

To exclude him from NetShrine (a second tier meritocracy) is to say only SS's of truly HoF credentials need apply.

Nice strawman argument.

I have already voted for Ernie Banks for NetShrine even though I do not consider him HOF worthy and therefore would vote no if the standard was "truly HoF credentials need apply."

I would similarly vote yes for Barry Larkin, even though I do not consider him HOF worthy. Same thing for Joe Cronin. Same thing for Luke APpling. Same thing for Hughie Jennings. Same thing for Jack Classcock. Same thing for Lou Boudreau.