Morris Gets The $$$$$

[CubFan7125]

I like this move a lot - Morris will be happy & not have to worry about his contract status - if they get anything from Rick Ankiel this year they will have a hell of a rotation & Jason Isringhausen to close out the games. The only bad part of all these Cardinal moves this winter is that it the Cubs will not have a cake walk thru the N.L. Central.

Morris gets $29 million after 22-win season (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0103/1305086.html)
ST. LOUIS -- The Cardinals have signed Matt Morris to a three-year, $29 million contract, ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting.

Morris was eligible for arbitration before signing the deal, which will keep him from becoming a free agent until after the 2004 season. Morris could have been a free agent after the 2002 season.

Morris, 27, was 22-8 last season for the Cardinals. He had a 3.16 ERA. He was 0-1 in two starts in the National League Division Series against Arizona, despite giving up just one run in eight innings of the deciding fifth game. He allowed one run in seven innings of Game 1. Both losses came to Curt Schilling.

Morris is 44-25 in four big league seasons, with a 3.09 ERA. He won 12 games in his rookie season, then threw just 166 2/3 innings in his next two years, going 10-8, before his breakout '01 season.

[Xanadu Dragon]

That's a lot of cheddar for a guy with only 600 IP to his name.

Steve Avery looked great around that mark as well.

Pitchers are a risky breed.

[SmedIndy]

I disagree.

They wasted money on Isringhausen, when many times closers are found, not bought.

Morris has injury risks all over him.

Plus, they over-spent for Tino and are going to play POLANCO in left.

LaRussa's going to struggle, I think. RATS

:cool: :D :p

[pathogan]

The Morris comparison to Steve avery is very interesting. From what I understand, Avery never really injured his arm. It went dead.How about Dwight Gooden? Or Larry Dierker?Gary Nolan? Wally Bunker?the Yanqui prospect brian Taylor? Fromer met #1 pick Paul Wilson? Pitchers are like african violets,and that is an awful lot of wood to throw to a guy with 1 and a half good seasons.

[SmedIndy]

LaRussa and Duncan have always been deadly to pitchers.

To wit:

Alan Benes
Donovan Osborne
Garrett Stephenson

Morris could turn out like Wayne Garland...

[pathogan]

The problem with comparing baseball managers is that unlike football or basketball or even hockey , the manager rarely affects games by what he does[more often,perhaps, by what they dont do.} What I mean is there are no"plays' per se to send in[yes, hit and run, steal, etc.], and i often wonder how difficult the job itself is? Joe Torre was, by his record abysmal and couldnt manage a grocery store before he became the Yanqui manager{Yes, I know about the divison title with atlanta}Now he will go to the Hall of fame on his managerial record alone.. Bob Brenley never managed, I mean never anywhere and he manages his team to the WS championship{and almost manages his team out of it, as well].My wife said, after the series"what does it say for the reast of the mangers if a guy who never, ever managed before does this?' It mean s being a good manager means having good players. And in La russa's case, being a self appointed genius is not the same as earning it.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Pathogan, the name of the team is the "Yankees", not "Yanquis". Thanks.

As for Brenley, he was supposed to be some excellent analytical person so maybe he was the right type of person, not just some lucky guy.

Dealing with guys making $10M+/year may not be that easy, and in the case of Torre, he's also been on the phone in November calling players he wants to court for the team. That means he not only has to coach them, he also has some input into who he coaches as well.

I've never filled out a lineup card but I'm not too sure the job is as easy as people may think it is.

[pathogan]

I believe the intent was satirical...so typical of so many yanqui fans i know...all they want is everything

[pathogan]

And before this Yankee bit gets out of hand, some perspective. Yesterday, 36000, that's thousand children died of hunger realted diseases around the world. Another 36000 will die today.. No presedential announcements, no religious leaders, no benefit concerts, no parades. Just 36000 kids gone. THAT IS IMPORTANT! I come to lovely sites like this because they are fun. If I want to get seious, there are enough things in my life to keep me busy for years. I think its important to keep that in mind., and to have fun with this.
Pat

[Yogi#8Fan]

Originally posted by pathogan
I believe the intent was satirical...so typical of so many yanqui fans i know...all they want is everything Typical of what? Asking for a team name to be spelled correctly? Whoever died or starved yesterday didn't stop you from posting online so what's that got to do w/anything? It's simply a matter of respect. Is that too much to ask or am I expecting much more than a Yankee fan even deserves? Jeez. :rolleyes::shakehd:

[LeGrandOrange]

Originally posted by SmedIndy

Plus, they over-spent for Tino and are going to play POLANCO in left.

Smed...they do have some Albert Pujols guy to play LF.
Unless Tony LaRussa already announced that he'll misuse Polanco in 2002...

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
Typical of what? Asking for a team name to be spelled correctly? Whoever died or starved yesterday didn't stop you from posting online so what's that got to do w/anything? It's simply a matter of respect. Is that too much to ask or am I expecting much more than a Yankee fan even deserves? Jeez. :rolleyes::shakehd:

Issue of respect? WTF?

Pat can call the Yankees whatever he wants here - - - this is not ('tho some would find it hard to believe) some fanboy Yankee Forum where the only thoughts/comments allowed are those with a "praise the Yankees" theme.

- And, I'm a Yankees fan.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Steve, I was actually thinking about dropping the entire subject, since he'd said it was in jest. I was just getting a little testy, but I'll admit I've heard the Yankees called much worse so no hard feelings. OK?

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
I was actually thinking about dropping the entire subject, since he'd said it was in jest. I was just getting a little testy, but I'll admit I've heard the Yankees called much worse so no hard feelings. OK?

Ask him, not me.

[Duque]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
LaRussa and Duncan have always been deadly to pitchers.

To wit:

Alan Benes
Donovan Osborne
Garrett Stephenson

Morris could turn out like Wayne Garland...

Depending on what happens this Spring, you might be able to add Rick Ankiel to that list.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Originally posted by pathogan
And before this Yankee bit gets out of hand, some perspective. Yesterday, 36000, that's thousand children died of hunger realted diseases around the world. Another 36000 will die today.. No presedential announcements, no religious leaders, no benefit concerts, no parades. Just 36000 kids gone. THAT IS IMPORTANT! I come to lovely sites like this because they are fun. If I want to get seious, there are enough things in my life to keep me busy for years. I think its important to keep that in mind., and to have fun with this.
Pat Pat, at Steve's request, I'm saying we put this whole matter aside and since you'd mentioned that "Yanqui" was said in jest, I'm not willing to take further issue w/you on this. Cool by you?

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange


Smed...they do have some Albert Pujols guy to play LF.
Unless Tony LaRussa already announced that he'll misuse Polanco in 2002...

I thought I read that on one of Lee's posts.

Then who plays third, and if it's Polanco, it's just as bad.

[LeGrandOrange]

You know, Polanco has a slick glove at 3B. We're taking :webgem: gold glove material up in here.
So what if he's not the greatest hitter in the world, you cannot go wrong with him fielding at 3B.

[BrewersFan]

Pretty much all pitchers are risks...this guy has great stuff and a great makeup.

If they get anything out of Ankiel, they are the team to beat in the Central, and maybe in the NL period. I'm still not sold on the Mets pitching.

[pathogan]

no problem,

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by BrewersFan
Pretty much all pitchers are risks...this guy has great stuff and a great makeup.




And a history of injury. I'm not saying Morris isn't good. He's been damaged in the past and LaRussa / Duncan are hell on arms.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
You know, Polanco has a slick glove at 3B. We're taking :webgem: gold glove material up in here.
So what if he's not the greatest hitter in the world, you cannot go wrong with him fielding at 3B.

Not defensively, but you still lose offensively. And the Cards will need to score runs....

[RichG]

Originally posted by SmedIndy



And a history of injury. I'm not saying Morris isn't good. He's been damaged in the past and LaRussa / Duncan are hell on arms.

But in this case I think LaRussa et al were very careful during Morris' comeback. I had the impression they brought him back very slowly, first as a reliever, then stretching him out.

Rich

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by BrewersFan
I'm still not sold on the Mets pitching.

Ditto - - and welcome to the forum!

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by RichG


But in this case I think LaRussa et al were very careful during Morris' comeback. I had the impression they brought him back very slowly, first as a reliever, then stretching him out.

Rich

Well, he spend 2000 in the pen, but in 2001 he almost duplicated his workload from 1997, and he was hurt in mid-1998.

Be afraid Cards fans, be very afraid.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Why does ESPN's Matt Morris page (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5784) list him as a RP, not an SP? :confuse:
Originally posted by pathogan
no problem, Thanks. :)
Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
You know, Polanco has a slick glove at 3B. We're taking :webgem: gold glove material up in here.
So what if he's not the greatest hitter in the world, you cannot go wrong with him fielding at 3B. For LGO & Smed, Polanco's actually batting .307 over 4 years. The reason his OPS is only .719 is that he hits mostly singles. His so-so .335 OBP is due to his not taking BB's, so perhaps greater patience and working out in the weightroom may be a solution for him to be at least more useful. Does anyone think he'll improve sometime this year?

I'll admit Polanco doesn't get many doubles, his HR's & RBI's remind me of Ordonez, but he's got a better OPS and more hits, but at least steals a little more often (12 SB, 3 CS = 80%).

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by pathogan
I believe the intent was satirical...so typical of so many yanqui fans i know...all they want is everything

That's not true. We won't be content with everything. We want more.

It's like when :homer: told Mr. Burns, "You are the richest man I know, even richer than Lenny" and Mr. Burns responded with, "Yes, but I'd trade it all in for some more."

[Yogi#8Fan]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
That's not true. We won't be content with everything. We want more.I'll only be content w/seeing #27 in 2002, but I expect to hear some flack from the non-Yank fans out there. Yes, I am insatiable in the rings department. Does that make me the :homer:? D'oh!
:stinker::devil:
:topic:

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by SmedIndy


Then who plays third, and if it's Polanco, it's just as bad.

LaRussa says Pujols is going to be the everyday 3B and Polanco's going to get a shot at the LF job.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
For LGO & Smed, Polanco's actually batting .307 over 4 years. The reason his OPS is only .719 is that he hits mostly singles. His so-so .335 OBP is due to his not taking BB's, so perhaps greater patience and working out in the weightroom may be a solution for him to be at least more useful. Does anyone think he'll improve sometime this year?

I'll admit Polanco doesn't get many doubles, his HR's & RBI's remind me of Ordonez, but he's got a better OPS and more hits, but at least steals a little more often (12 SB, 3 CS = 80%).

And that makes him a good 3B or LF how?

If he's in a power position, the Cards better hope Morris can win another 22 with a 2.40 ERA this time.

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
Why does ESPN's Matt Morris page (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5784) list him as a RP, not an SP? :confuse:


Morris was a reliever in 2000, so they were too lazy to amend his position.

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
LaRussa says Pujols is going to be the everyday 3B and Polanco's going to get a shot at the LF job.

I'd rather see Ankiel in LF.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon


I'd rather see Ankiel in LF.


Maybe Rick Rhoden can come off the golf course and help out!

[mainsr]

Hey, Yogi, great to see you slingin' OPS around. (No, I am not being satirical.)

Morris looks like trouble to me:
1997 33 GS, 217 IP
1998 113 IP before arm went boom
1999 Boom year
2000 53 IP in 31 games from the pen
2001 34 GS, 216 IP. Average pitches per start: 98.
Breakdown of starts:
< 90 pitches 7
91-100 6
101-110 14
111-120 6
120+ 1

I dunno...21 of 34 starts, 100+ pitches, 26 year old with a history of arm troubles...Put him on a Felipe Alou team, and he'll last until he's 38. With LaRussa and Duncan, I'll be he comes up lame before the season ends.


PS Comparison: The Yankee Who Actually DID Deserve the Cy:
34 GS, 229 IP. Average pitches per start: 101
Breakdown
< 90 pitches 5
91-100 5
101-110 13
111-120 11
120+ 0
Yes, it's a heavier workload, but Mussina was 32 and a horse.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
And that makes him a good 3B or LF how?

If he's in a power position, the Cards better hope Morris can win another 22 with a 2.40 ERA this time. I never said that makes him a good 3B or LF offensively. Just saying that he needs to work on his lumber and that he's not completely hopeless, that's all. ;)
Originally posted by mainsr
Hey, Yogi, great to see you slingin' OPS around. (No, I am not being satirical.)I'm trying to get into understanding more about stats, though I'm far from a statmaster. This WHIP, RCAA, etc. have me bogged down but I'm trying. You've gotta remember, even among the newer members, lots of you folks have played roto and been glued to the tube, radio, print for decades but I'm a relatively casual fan but I'll do the best I can w/what I know.
Yes, it's a heavier workload, but Mussina was 32 and a horse. I think Moose showed great potential season past, and I refuse to argue about the eventual AL CYA winner. I just think that if Mike keeps himself grounded and concentrates, focused, he could have one awesome 2002 season.

As for the arm I felt was most valuable to the team, let's just say that Old Warriors shouldn't be taken f/granted and leave it at that.
:cool2::)

[sweaver]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
Pathogan, the name of the team is the "Yankees", not "Yanquis". Thanks.



So what's the matter with Spanish?

Any pitcher is a risk on a long-term contract. More so a guy like Morris, with a history of arm trouble. Odds are about 50-50, the same odds as that I'll get up in the morning, or open a letter infected with anthrax.

[Yogi#8Fan]

Originally posted by sweaver
So what's the matter with Spanish?Vous non parle pas de français (from the "Xanadu Dragon" thread); yo no hable espagñol.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by mainsr
Morris looks like trouble to me:

I dunno...21 of 34 starts, 100+ pitches, 26 year old with a history of arm troubles...Put him on a Felipe Alou team, and he'll last until he's 38. With LaRussa and Duncan, I'll be he comes up lame before the season ends.
Proof positive that pitching, even mediocre pitching or risky pitchers, are in such demand that the money just flocks to them.