Excellent job by the Umpires....

[BravesWin!]

If this should go in the ALCS thread, than I apologize...

Anyhow...the umpires are a group that normally get overlooked unless they screw up, especially in the postseason. But coming from someone who is Totally Nuetral towards the teams in the ALCS, I was so pleased to see the job that they did last night. Buck, McCarver and Leiter did a pretty good job of giving them the credit they deserved, but I was thinking this morning...About how different the game would have been had Bellhorn not been given that HR, and had ARod been on 2nd with 1 out in the 8th with Jeter's run counting to make it 4-3.

The game, and series, would have turned on two missed calls. But these umpires took the time to get them right, and regardless of who wins tonight, the series, and quite frankly, the sport, are better off for it.

I was so pleased to see the umpires take the time to get the calls right and to make sure that this series was and is decided on the field by the people in the white and grey uniforms; not the blazers and pants...

[KCBOOMER]

As the replays showed the Umps made the correct calls in the end. Fortunately, their errors didn't cause any continuation of play fiascos.

[hopbitters]

I was so pleased to see the umpires take the time to get the calls right and to make sure that this series was and is decided on the field by the people in the white and grey uniforms; not the blazers and pants...

Agreed. As somebody completely biased for the Bombers and against the Sox (though I'm reconsidering my bias for the Bombers after the actions of the fans last night), I'm still glad they a) took the time b) got the calls right. Even when those calls incorrectly go the way of your team, it detracts from the 'victory'. It's better to get the calls right and lose by your inability and unwillingness to advance runners.

[captain_napalm]

Agreed. As somebody completely biased for the Bombers and against the Sox (though I'm reconsidering my bias for the Bombers after the actions of the fans last night), I'm still glad they a) took the time b) got the calls right. Even when those calls incorrectly go the way of your team, it detracts from the 'victory'. It's better to get the calls right and lose by your inability and unwillingness to advance runners.
Agreed.

[Crash Course]

Maybe another step?????????
I was at the game last night in NY. Without the benefit of replay, the fans just think that the umps screwed the pooch. Maybe what they should do, in these cases, to avoid litter thrown on the field, etc., is to show the replays at the parks too - so the fans at the game can see that umps are right.

As it is now, no replays are shown at the park - at the request of umps, many years ago.

[Deep Blue]

You make a good point Crash. I think the fans are done a real dis-service in the end by not sharing those replays. No excuses for the behavior afterwards, but I find it ultimately unfair that the fans in the seats don't get the advantage of seeing the replays. In general I think they would find themselves agreeing with the umps more, and not less.

[hopbitters]

The replay idea has merit, but fans are going to see what they want to see. I've already heard several coworkers insisting that A-Rod did nothing wrong. They saw all the replays. They're just idiots.

They have 8 godzillion cameras at these games, because Fox (and others, but I'm picking on Fox today) apparently thinks that the baseball viewing public was not tuning in to their broadcasts because they were missing that camera angle from the viewpoint of the infield dirt. These cameras scan the fans constantly.

Keep the cameras there (but please don't broadcast them). Send the feed to security. Pick out the morons who disrupt the game. Take them outside. Get all their ID info and prohibit them from purchasing tickets or attending all MLB games for n years, depending on what they did. Put their names up on the scoreboard. "This 20-minute delay and the cessation of beer sales brought to you by..." Pass them off to local law enforcement for bludgeoning and/or incarcaration. The same goes for fans who interfere with balls in play, etc. They do it because they can and MLB will only shrug at them.

[Deep Blue]

Get all their ID info and prohibit them from purchasing tickets or attending all MLB games for n years, depending on what they did. Put their names up on the scoreboard. "This 20-minute delay and the cessation of beer sales brought to you by..." ... The same goes for fans who interfere with balls in play, etc.

I love this idea !

[Crash Course]

FWIW, while I did not throw anything on the field last night, and was embarrassed for the city and the fandom by the actions of those who did, there is somewhat of a history in the game of fans littering the field in big games when the umps make a call against the home crowd, in a huge spot, and it is not clear to the crowd that the umps did the right thing. Knowing this, I could understand why it was happening.

[Deep Blue]

Crash - given how the play occurred, and the probable inability to see it clearly from the stands (never mind the lack of replay), I can understand the fans being upset. Especially given the earlier home run controversy (although - how the heck could the left field ump have missed that call ?), and the tough couple of days sledding for the Yankees. Their fans certainly are not alone in embarrassing behavior at an important game....

From your presence there - what was the impact when the riot police manned the fences ? What was the response from / feeling in the crowd then ? It sure seemed odd to observe on the TV screen.

[captain_napalm]

FWIW, the riot cops were there because the game was a potential series ending one. They just came out & surrounded the field earlier than normal.

I'm sure you will see them tonight as well.

[PianoMonkey]

FWIW, the riot cops were there because the game was a potential series ending one. They just came out & surrounded the field earlier than normal.

That's a really good point. I had assumed at the time it was out of fear for the safety of the players/umps (particularly after Francona pulled his guys off the field). Maybe I've seen to many games at Comiskey (ahem, US Cellular).

As for the teammates saying ARod did nothing wrong, I would expect no different. I also don't fault ARod himself because it seems like a tough thing to restrain yourself from doing, even if you know its wrong (which even a veteran may not know on such a play).

[Crash Course]

From your presence there - what was the impact when the riot police manned the fences ? What was the response from / feeling in the crowd then ? It sure seemed odd to observe on the TV screen.

Everyone around me was laughing about it - expressing that they thought it was a joke and overkill. One guy, next to me, said "Great, they have every cop in New York screwing the city for OT here tonight. Let's go rob a bank in the Bronx, because all the cops are at the game."

[BravesWin!]

(although - how the heck could the left field ump have missed that call ?),

MLB Umpire Tim McClleland, was on the Dan Patrick Show this afternoon, talking about that, and he made some points that made a lot of sense...

Umpires work around 200 games a year when you include Spring Training, Regular Season and Postseason. They work a Grand Total of maybe, maybe, 2 games down one of the lines. He said that they simply don't have any training and no practice working that far away...He said all umps stand in different spots, relative to how far back they are from the infield because there is no standard. They have no familiararity with judging the ball off the bat from that location either.

He went on to say that it is very likely that the 2B or 3B ump could have had a better view of the HR play because those two umpires are in a comfortable and familiar position to make that call; while the LF ump could get turned around...he is not used to having to follow the ball from the different angle, and therefore may not see it all the way...

Again, not defending the umpires who blow calls, but to me that seemed like a reasonable explination as to why the base umpires could have a better view of the HR play...

[nyy26wc]

Keep the cameras there (but please don't broadcast them). Send the feed to security. Pick out the morons who disrupt the game. Take them outside. Get all their ID info and prohibit them from purchasing tickets or attending all MLB games for n years, depending on what they did. Put their names up on the scoreboard. "This 20-minute delay and the cessation of beer sales brought to you by..." Pass them off to local law enforcement for bludgeoning and/or incarcaration. The same goes for fans who interfere with balls in play, etc. They do it because they can and MLB will only shrug at them.

OK. Get their IDs and prohibit them from ever attending a game.

So, the next step is how do you enforce the ban? You're going to have make every fan who walks through any turnstile to present their IDs. But, since that's easy to fake, you'll have to make multiple forms of ID. Then, you're going to have to check every name against the master list of people banned.
That's going to add a signficant amount of time to how long it's going to take people to get into the stadium.

[captain_napalm]

That's going to add a signficant amount of time to how long it's going to take people to get into the stadium.

On top of the length of time it *already* takes to get into the stadium due to security checks

[hopbitters]

Once you have people on file as unwelcome at the ballpark, whatever they do to skirt their ban is trespassing. Are you likely to catch them? Not with the current levels of security, but if you do, you can send them back to local law enforcement. It's not a big deterrent, but it's something.

Is a traditional ID check necessary or helpful? Not really. Especially not for a few dozen morons out of the total baseball attendance of a year. That's not to say a check couldn't be done, though. Right now, I can get a laptop with fingerprint security built-in. Disney uses biometrics to identify passholders. It takes about 2 seconds longer than the average process of handing your ticket over. If MLB really wanted to deter these kinds of actions, there are plenty of ways to get it done, with more popping up every day.

As it stands, you're relying on the fans sobriety, sense of decency, and respect for the game to keep them from doing stupid and potentially dangerous things and it obviously isn't working. If the alternative is police in riot gear, I'm willing to pay more for my tickets, stand in line longer, or whatever it takes to not be subject to these morons disrupting the game. Your mileage may vary.

[Deep Blue]

I think I just like the idea of identifying them and then publicly assigning blame for the game delay and the shutoff in beer sales to them... :) Peer pressure can fix the rest.

[schernak]

You know this type of monitoring of fans and banning certain fans from games occurs in English soccer. Further, other countries have lists of English fans that are not allowed to attend soccer games in the host country.

Secondly, I took an English friend to a game a few years back and she was suprised that fans of the opposing team were not relagated to one section as they are in England.

So far we as Baseball fans have been lucky and have not experienced the type of "hooliganism" that plagues English Soccer. However events like this, the Rangers chair incident, the A's Cell phone throwing and the assualt of the umpire in the KC/White Sox game do give us some reason to ponder if we are on the same path.