Texas Rangers - A's Fans Fight

[Crash Course]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1881073

Let's see if I can get some pictures........

[Crash Course]

Not pretty - boy, and they talk about fans in NY, Boston, and Philly..........

[hopbitters]

Well, I didn't see the game and I can't quite make out what actually happened from the various "news" stories. I can't imagine anything a fan could say, however, that would justify throwing a chair (or anything else) into the stands. If David Wells, that paragon of self-control, could keep his furniture to himself with fans taunting him about his recently deceased mother, I'm pretty confident that the Rangers could have. Besides, when has anything ever tossed into the stands hit the actual moron in question and not some poor sap in the vicinity of said moron? You should at least have the decency to drag the fan into the bullpen so you can be sure you're assaulting and battering the correct person.

[RascalJones]

Good thing A's fans have no history of throwing things on the field or at players.

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

[Crash Course]

This one reminds me of the Dodgers incident at Wrigley a few years back. As our culture and percieved acceptable behavior has changed in this day and age, perhaps it's time for MLB to get away from bullpens on the foul lines?

[captain_napalm]

This one reminds me of the Dodgers incident at Wrigley a few years back. As our culture and percieved acceptable behavior has changed in this day and age, perhaps it's time for MLB to get away from bullpens on the foul lines?

Well, where else you gonna put em in Oakland?

IMO, ballpark security needs to to a better job of weeding these troublemakers out. People in the vicinity of the "anal orifice" need to keep that person in check. Given what these morons yell at any given game, it's a small wonder a ballplayer doesn't wig out more often than they do

[Crash Course]

Move 'em closer to the field in Oakland? There is enough foul territory, maybe?

FWIW, Frank Francisco was arrested Tuesday morning on a charge of aggravated battery.

[captain_napalm]

Move 'em closer to the field in Oakland? There is enough foul territory, maybe?


Well, stranger things have happened... I still think that they'll keep the bullpens in their present location.


FWIW, Frank Francisco was arrested Tuesday morning on a charge of aggravated battery.


Well, can't say I didn't see THAT coming.

[Crash Course]

I was just thinking........should we be shocked by any of this? I mean, the A's fans come from the same pool as the Raiders fans........no?

[mainsr]

Yeah, but baseball fans presumably don't spend three hours before the game pounding dogs and Anchor Steams.

I guess it's good for the A's that they are drawing enough fans for some to get unruly.

Betcha Francisco gets the longest suspension of the year.

[Crash Course]

I guess Texas will be Sans Francisco.

[PianoMonkey]

That's a pretty great pun.

What's the max penalty for that felony charge? Any paralegals out there?

[Crash Course]

Dunno.
Just saw the clip of the woman getting smacked with the chair. Not pretty. Her hubby, reported to be a heckler, was very well dressed and well spoken in an interview. He said all the write buzz words. Francisco better get a real good lawyer.

[mainsr]

What's the max penalty for that felony charge? Any paralegals out there?

I'm no lawyer (but I like lawyer jokes*), but if I googled the Calif. penal code correctly, the penalty for aggravated battery is 2-4 years. I'll bet it's pled down to a misdemeanor and a fine. Of more concern, given Crash's comment, is the possibility of a civil judgement. The concept of "double jeopardy" doesn't apply in the Golden State (nor the other 49, as far as I can tell), and this could be a multi-million-dollar broken nose. (Don't get me started on trial lawyers.)



*How many lawyers does it take to shingle a roof? Depends how thin you slice them.

[nyy26wc]

What's the max penalty for that felony charge?

I can't comment on California law, but in NJ, the penalty for aggravated assault is 5-10 years.

[Crash Course]

I'm guessing that Francisco is here on a work VISA. Does that factor into anything here? Can he get sent back if found guilty?

[nyy26wc]

Probably.

[nyy26wc]

I can't comment on California law, but in NJ, the penalty for aggravated assault is 5-10 years.

While that is a correct answer, for aggravated assault, the situation is actually more complicated that than.

Aggravated assault is a crime in the 2nd degree, which puts in the 5-10 year category. That also carries with it the "presumption of incarceration." In English, that means that, if convicted, there is a presumption that you go to state prison, even with a perfectly clean prior record. There is a statute that allows a judge (and therefore, also the parties, for purposes of arraging a plea bargain) to exercise discretion and reduce the sentence of a 2nd degree crime down to the 3rd degree time, which is 3-5 years. But, even if the judge did that, the presumption of incarceration still applies.

But, Francisco could easily be charged with aggravated assault and then plead down to assault with a deadly weapon. Assault with a deadly weapon is merely a crime in the 3rd degree, which carried the 3-5 year sentence. But, signficantly, a 3rd degree crime comes with the "presumption of non incarceration." In English, that means you get a freebie, but, only if it's your first felony conviction. A first time offender gets a presumption of probation, someone with a record gets the jail time.

[mainsr]

Lee, you're making me think I read the penal code wrong--why would NJ's penalty for aggravated assault be tougher than California's for aggravated battery? I'll bet I misunderstood something.

I'll bet it gets pleaded down to something less than assualt with a deadly weapon (insert chair=deadly weapon jokes here). What do bar brawls wind up being? Mayhem? Mischief?

[nyy26wc]

Lee, you're making me think I read the penal code wrong--why would NJ's penalty for aggravated assault be tougher than California's for aggravated battery? I'll bet I misunderstood something.

I can't say for certain, without reading the California code, but I'm pretty sure this is just a case of different states calling it different things. I do know for certain that, what I was taught in law school to call "battery" turned into "assault" when I moved from the classroom to the courtroom.

For example, some states call things misdeamnors, NJ calls it disorderly person offenses. Some states call it murder in the first degree (aka murder 1), NJ calls it death penalty eligible murder. Almost all states use the word "rape," NJ just calls it aggravated sexual assault. Almost all states call their highest court the "Supreme Court," but NY and Maryland (I just learned this about Maryland today) calls it "Court of Appeals" and Massacusetts calls it "Supreme Judicial Court" (or, SJC, for us fans of The Practice).

[nyy26wc]

Back to Crash's question--

From Jeremy Newberg's (a lawyer) report from today--

My fear is that, given the heightened security restrictions in place since
9/11, a felony conviction could prevent Francisco from entering the United
States in February on a work visa from the Dominican Republic. Or worse, he
could be deported before then. Mike Hindman did some research on the
federal INS laws and learned that an aggravated felony (which Francisco has
been charged with) is, generally, a "deportable offense." Evidently,
according to Mike, states sometimes request that INS deport a criminal in
order to avoid the costs to taxpayers of prosecuting (and perhaps
incarcerating) an individual. I don't know how often deportation is
resorted to in instances like this one (as if there's much precedent) or
whether the work visa restrictions would be discretionary, but it's all
something I'm betting the Rangers are looking into right away.

[hopbitters]

This is mildly off-topic, but I was once explained the difference between assault and battery by a friend who worked in several DC-area bars. This is by no means a legal or necessarily even coherent explanation, but I found it amusing and the explanation stuck with me :

If you just attack somebody, that's assault. If they're somehow unable to defend themselves and you initiate or continue attacking them, that's battery. So, when you get into a fight outside a bar with some equally drunk sot, that's assault. When he passes out and you go for the PAT, that's battery.