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CubFan7125
12-28-2001, 09:55 PM
I wonder if this is due to the whole Winfield scenario last summer where the Pad's supposedly paid David M. $1,000,000 & gave him the use of a luxury car, or just a sign of the times when players like Griffey & Clemens who will become eligible soon & would have multiple choices.


Baseball Hall makes cap call (http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-hall28.html)
BY TONI GINNETTI STAFF REPORTER Chicago Sun-Times
December 28, 2001
If Andre Dawson wins election to the Hall of Fame on Jan. 8, there will be no debate about which cap he will wear on his plaque. Hall of Fame officials have seen to that.

In a rule sent out to Baseball Writers' Association of America electors, the Hall has decided it will determine what cap any player elected for enshrinement will wear, ending the traditional debate for inductees who have played for multiple teams during their careers.

''If any player should earn election to the Hall, the Museum [Hall] staff will decide which logo appears on his plaque, though all teams for whom he played will be listed,'' the rule states. ''The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum is a nationally renowned history museum and independent from Major League Baseball. To us, the logo selection is important from a historical standpoint. Each candidate will be informed of this.''

The Hall hasn't indicated which cap it will pick for players. Dawson played 21 seasons, the first 11 with Montreal. He holds the Expos' franchise record for home runs (225) and was the 1977 National League Rookie of the Year. But he was the NL MVP while a Cub in 1987. He also played for Boston and Florida.

When Carlton Fisk was selected two years ago, he chose the Red Sox logo over the White Sox even though he played more years with the White Sox. Such inconsistencies led Hall officials to institute the new policy.



What I wondered after reading this is does Gary Carter go in as a Met or LeExpo? After all he spent 11 seasons north of the border & only 5 with the Mets. I would have said the Mets before this, but now I am not sure. Does length matter as much as overall contribution? After all Winnie had a great career as a Padre, but he will always be a Yankee. As for the Hall's statement that they are independent from MLB, shouldn't they let Pete in then. I better stop, thats another subject completely.

Skip
12-28-2001, 10:01 PM
Perhaps they'll just use blank caps. I believe there are a number of players in the hall with no insignia at all on their caps.

Duque
12-28-2001, 10:10 PM
I think Rickey would go in as an Oakland A, but what about guys like Clemens or Cone or Canseco (should the latter two make it into the Hall). Clemens had most of his years with Boston - but they are not on good terms.

I think Wade Boggs hinting he might go in as a Devil Ray might have had as much to do with this as Winfield's selection.

Xanadu Dragon
12-28-2001, 10:24 PM
Blame Reggie for all this - - him going in with a Yankee hat started this trend of going in with "what's good for me."

Xanadu Dragon
12-28-2001, 10:26 PM
Did Nolan Ryan go in as a Ranger? (If yes, then it's the same as Reggie, I guess.) And, if Ryan is a Ranger, then I guess Clemens can go in as a Yankee.

Skip
12-28-2001, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
Blame Reggie for all this - - him going in with a Yankee hat started this trend of going in with "what's good for me."

Yeah - but the HOF has allowed this to fester for way too long now. What a silly issue to get in the way of really important debates like who really belongs there in the first place.

hmrsf
12-28-2001, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
Did Nolan Ryan go in as a Ranger? (If yes, then it's the same as Reggie, I guess.) And, if Ryan is a Ranger, then I guess Clemens can go in as a Yankee.


Call it a time warp thing! I can still not picture Clemens as a Yank. Maybe I should just get over it and hate him like most Boston fans. I just can't!

Duque
12-28-2001, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by hmrsf



Call it a time warp thing! I can still not picture Clemens as a Yank. Maybe I should just get over it and hate him like most Boston fans. I just can't!

Good for you - I never understand Boston fans booing Clemens. I bet you don't hate Buckner either, do you?

hmrsf
12-28-2001, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Duque


Good for you - I never understand Boston fans booing Clemens. I bet you don't hate Buckner either, do you?

Can't cheer for a guy your whole life and turn it off like a switch. Certain players make you feel like a kid all over again. I will be crushed if he goes in as a Yank.Guess we all have to grow up sometime.

Hate Buckner for what? For one illfated moment. Part of me hates that series. It turned hereos into goats.:(

Yogi#8Fan
12-28-2001, 11:08 PM
I remember the late Catfish, another A's to Yankee HOFer, decided now to wear a cap, saying he couldn't decide which team to favor.

I'll admit I've got mixed feelings on Clemens, since he played a lot more in Boston. I used to think it was his feud with Duquette and his "twilight of his career" comment, not Boston fans. Then someone said he hadn't trained as much, asked out in Game 6 of 1986 WS and a few other tidbits I'd gathered from a few Boston diehards some time ago.

CubFan7125
12-29-2001, 10:06 AM
Somebody help me here. Did Gaylord go in as a Giant or with a blank hat? I remember watching an old-timers game & Gaylord come out looking like a NASCAR driver, with every logo he wore on his jersey. At least the man has a sense of humor.

Yogi#8Fan
12-29-2001, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by CubFan7125
Somebody help me here. Did Gaylord go in as a Giant or with a blank hat? I remember watching an old-timers game & Gaylord come out looking like a NASCAR driver, with every logo he wore on his jersey. At least the man has a sense of humor. http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/contact/email.htm

I don't know what their response time is but it couldn't hurt. I just tried it and we'll see what happens.

Xanadu Dragon
12-29-2001, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by CubFan7125
Somebody help me here. Did Gaylord go in as a Giant or with a blank hat?

Giants:

http://www.bus.utexas.edu/students/sema/gallery/gallery/GaylordPerry.asp

Yogi#8Fan
12-29-2001, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
Giants:

http://www.bus.utexas.edu/students/sema/gallery/gallery/GaylordPerry.asp One day, I'm going to sneak in and steal your links and big bag of tricks.

Yogi#8Fan
12-31-2001, 11:08 AM
Since there was some discussion about caps I requested and received this email, listing which players wore which caps -- if any -- into the MLB HOF:

Dear Friend,

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

Here is the information you requested:

Team Representation on Hall of Fame Plaques Through 2001 Induction Updated Aug. 10, 2001

National League (75) Atlanta (2): Henry Aaron, Phil Niekro; Boston (3): Billy Hamilton, Rabbit Maranville, Tommy McCarthy; Brooklyn (9): Roy Campanella, Leo Durocher, Burleigh Grimes, Willie Keeler, Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Duke Snider, Dazzy Vance, Zack Wheat; Chicago (8): Ernie Banks, Frank Chance, Kiki Cuyler, Gabby Hartnett, Billy Herman, Fergie Jenkins, Billy Williams, Hack Wilson; Cincinnati (8): Sparky Anderson, Johnny Bench, Ernie Lombardi, Bill McKechnie, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Eppa Rixey, Edd Roush; Los Angeles (5): Walter Alston, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Tommy Lasorda, Don Sutton; Milwaukee (2): Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn; New York Giants (10): Carl Hubbell, Monte Irvin, Travis Jackson, George Kelly, Fred Lindstrom, Christy Mathewson, John McGraw, Bill Terry, Hoyt Wilhelm, Ross Youngs; New York Mets (1): Tom Seaver; Philadelphia (6): Richie Ashburn, Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton, Chuck Klein, Robin Roberts, Mike Schmidt; Pittsburgh (10): Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Roberto Clemente, Ralph Kiner, Bill Mazeroski, Willie Stargell, Pie Traynor, Arky Vaughan, Lloyd Waner, Paul Waner; St. Louis (7): Lou Brock, Dizzy Dean, Bob Gibson, Stan Musial, Kid Nichols, Red Schoendienst, Enos Slaughter; San Diego (1): Dave Winfield; San Francisco (5): Orlando Cepeda, Juan Marichal, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Gaylord Perry.

American League (65) Baltimore (4): Jim Palmer, Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Earl Weaver; Boston (9): Joe Cronin, Bobby Doerr, Rick Ferrell, Carlton Fisk, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Herb Pennock, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski; Chicago (5): Luis Aparicio, Luke Appling, Red Faber, Nellie Fox, Ted Lyons Cleveland (12): Earl Averill, Lou Boudreau, Stan Coveleski, Larry Doby, Bob Feller, Addie Joss, Nap Lajoie, Bob Lemon, Al Lopez, Joe Sewell, Early Wynn, Cy Young; Detroit (9): Ty Cobb, Mickey Cochrane, Sam Crawford, Hank Greenberg, Hughie Jennings, Al Kaline, George Kell, Heinie Manush, Hal Newhouser Kansas City; Royals (1): George Brett; Milwaukee (1): Robin Yount; Minnesota (3): Rod Carew, Harmon Killebrew, Kirby Puckett; New York (15): Earle Combs, Bill Dickey, Joe DiMaggio, Whitey Ford, Lou Gehrig, Lefty Gomez, Waite Hoyt, Joe McCarthy, Miller Huggins, Tony Lazzeri, Mickey Mantle, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, Casey Stengel; Oakland (1): Rollie Fingers; Philadelphia (1): Al Simmons; Texas (1): Nolan Ryan; Washington [old] (4): Goose Goslin, Bucky Harris, Walter Johnson, Sam Rice.

Negro Leagues (4) Kansas City Monarchs (1): Bullet Rogan Newark; Eagles (2): Ray Dandridge, Willie Wells; New York Lincoln Giants (1): Smoky Joe Williams.

Puerto Rican Winter League (1) Aguadilla Sharks (1): Leon Day

Cap Without Logo (71) Grover Cleveland Alexander, Cap Anson, John F. Baker, Dave Bancroft, Al Barlick, Jake Beckley, Cool Papa Bell, Chief Bender, Yogi Berra, Jim Bottomley, Roger Bresnahan, Mordecai Brown, Oscar Charleston, Jack Chesbro, Nestor Chylak, John Clarkson, Fred Clarke, Eddie Collins, Charles Comiskey, Jocko Conlan, Tommy Connolly, Roger Connor, George Davis, Martin Dihigo, Billy Evans, Johnny Evers, Buck Ewing, Elmer Flick, Rube Foster, Bill Foster, Frank Frisch, Pud Galvin, Charlie Gehringer, Josh Gibson, Clark Griffith, Chick Hafey, Pop Haines, Harry Heilmann, Harry Hooper, Rogers Hornsby, Cal Hubbard, Catfish Hunter, Travis Jackson, Judy Johnson, Tim Keefe, Joe Kelley, Bill Klem, Buck Leonard, Pop Lloyd, Rube Marquard, Bill McGowan, Bid McPhee, Ducky Medwick, Johnny Mize, Jim O'Rourke, Satchel Paige, Eddie Plank, Old Hoss Radbourne, Wilbert Robinson, Amos Rusie, Ray Schalk, Hilton Smith, Tris Speaker, Turkey Stearnes, Sam Thompson, Joe Tinker, Rube Waddell, Honus Wagner, Ed Walsh, John Montgomery Ward, Mickey Welch.

No Cap (34) Ed Barrow, Dan Brouthers, Morgan Bulkeley, Jesse Burkett, Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, Happy Chandler, Jimmy Collins, Candy Cummings, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Ford Frick, Warren Giles, Ned Hanlon, William Harridge, Ban Johnson, King Kelly, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, Connie Mack, Larry MacPhail, Lee MacPhail, Joe McGinnity, Mel Ott, Branch Rickey, Frank Selee, George Sisler, Albert Spalding, Bill Veeck, Bobby Wallace, George Weiss, Vic Willis, George Wright, Harry Wright, Tom Yawkey.

Notes: This is a list of Baseball Hall of Famers according to the teams represented on their Hall of Fame plaques, not according to the team they spent most of their career with. In many cases (e.g. Jimmie Foxx, Reggie Jackson, Nolan Ryan), the team represented on a player's plaque is not the team he spent the better part of his career with. Many other Hall of Famers, including some who can be easily associated with one particular team (e.g. Yogi Berra), are pictured on their plaques wearing caps without logos. These have been listed separately and are not counted in a particular team's total.

Most Hall of Famers by Franchise Through 1999 Induction Compiled by Eric Enders, Research Department, National Baseball Hall of Fame Library

15 -- New York Yankees
15 -- New York/San Francisco Giants
14 -- Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers
12 -- Cleveland Indians
9 -- Detroit Tigers
9 -- Pittsburgh Pirates
8 -- Chicago Cubs
8 -- Boston Red Sox
7 -- Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves
7 -- St. Louis Cardinals
6 -- Cincinnati Reds
6 -- Philadelphia Phillies
6 -- Washington Senators/Minnesota Twins
5 -- Chicago White Sox
4 -- St. Louis Browns/Baltimore Orioles
2 -- Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics
2 -- Newark Eagles
1 -- Aguadilla Sharks
1 -- Kansas City Monarchs
1 -- Kansas City Royals
1 -- Seattle Pilots/Milwaukee Brewers
1 -- New York Lincoln Giants
1 -- New York Mets
1 -- Washington Senators/Texas Rangers


Notes: This is a list of Baseball Hall of Famers according to the teams represented on their Hall of Fame plaques, not according to the team they spent most of their career with. In many cases (e.g. Jimmie Foxx, Reggie Jackson, Nolan Ryan), the team represented on a player's plaque is not the team he spent the better part of his career with. Many other Hall of Famers, including some who can be easily associated with one particular team (e.g. Yogi Berra), are pictured on their plaques wearing caps without logos. These are not counted in a particular team's total.

Your Friends at, The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Learn about baseball's rich history and get the inside track on the latest happenings at the Hall. Sign up today for Inside Pitch, and receive interesting stories and timely news items direct from Cooperstown - where the past, present, and future of America's Game unite.

There's no cost to receive Inside Pitch in your e-mail box at home or work - just follow the link below. And if you like our newsletter, be sure to e-mail it to your friends and family today. Please note: You must be at least 13 years of age or older to subscribe.

http://baseballhalloffame.org/inside_pitch/index.htm

[Edited to add Bold, ";" and "." to team names & leagues. No text edits made.
Edited again to remove the extraneous "[b]" code from text.]

Xanadu Dragon
12-31-2001, 11:47 AM
I'm amazed at some of the players with nothing on their hat.

Yogi#8Fan
12-31-2001, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
I'm amazed at some of the players with nothing on their hat. As soon as I got the email, I had to post it so that people can use it as reference material.

Do you need me to forward the email to you for verification? If so, I don't remember your email address offhand.

CubFan7125
12-31-2001, 01:03 PM
Why are certain people like Mel Ott inducted with no cap, thats what I found odd. Also Nestor Chylak inducted without a logo on his cap - why not A.L.?

Yogi#8Fan
12-31-2001, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by CubFan7125
Why are certain people like Mel Ott inducted with no cap, thats what I found odd. Also Nestor Chylak inducted without a logo on his cap - why not A.L.? For a definitive response, please send an email to info@baseballhalloffame.org.

CubFan7125
12-31-2001, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
For a definitive response, please send an email to info@baseballhalloffame.org. I had meant it as more of a rhetorical question, but thanks for the lead, I think I will send an e-mail.

Xanadu Dragon
12-31-2001, 05:26 PM
Betcha Chylak has some sort of union issue tie in - - Ott, well, you got me!

Yogi#8Fan
12-31-2001, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by CubFan7125
I had meant it as more of a rhetorical question, but thanks for the lead, I think I will send an e-mail.You're quite welcome.

I'm still wondering why Yogi went in w/o a cap. He'd only played all of 4 games as a Met so you figure.

KCBOOMER
01-04-2002, 04:15 PM
With all the guys with no hat and all the guys with blank hats you would think that the HoF would have something else to worry about besides what logo a guy wore on his cap.

Maybe they are more clever than I am giving them credit for. Maybe they want people to pay them the $1M for putting on the logo of their choice.