Yanks, Red Sox, Mets, & Diamondbacks Remarks

[Crash Course]

See: http://www.netshrine.com/20040729.html

Discussion welcome and appreciated.

[rc3000]

Well to state the obvious: Why is Red Sox Nation not treating Trot the same way as Garcia. Trot is on the Red Sox. But I guess your point is that only Red Sox Nation irrationally thinks there players are right and the other team is the bad guy...

[Crash Course]

It is always about the uniforms.

[Craig S.]

As a neutral observer, I thought the suspensions were pretty fair. I still don't think Kapler did much to merit sitting, but Nixon was definitely an extra man in, which is always a no-no in fights in any sport. I think ARod and Varitek both deserve their 4 games - ARod for inviting the punch, and Varitek for throwing it.

I'm keeping those names, and I'll check them when I get Sickels' book next year. I'm not at home, so I can't see how he graded some of them this time around.

But you're right - it's always about the uniforms, and that goes both ways.

[Crash Course]

FWIW, those are only some of the names. Sean Henn and Marcos Vechionacci are two more that would be good prospects in any system.

[mgoettsche]

Interesting stat about the D-Backs, for sure. Although looking back, they kind of won in 2001 with smoke and mirrors, didn't they?

They had two dominant, but aging pitchers, a tremendous season from a previous unknown, and solid seasons from several aging or nondescript players. No pitching depth whatsoever.

Unlike the Yanks of the late '90s or the Marlins last year, there weren't really any young stars on the team. You know as soon as Schilling, Johnson, and/or Luis fell apart that they were toast.

[Crash Course]

In many ways, the D-backs were more of a one hit hired gun wonder, ring wise, than the Marlins - at least the Marlins were near .500 three years later and a ring winner again just 6 years later.

[Deep Blue]

I would posit that the "decent" Marlins of 3 years later, and the World Series champs of last year, bear essentially no resemblance to their first World Series champs. Given that team was essentially dismantled, and then a new team was eventually built up, I would call the '97 team a one-hit wonder. The new version however shows the potential to at least be more interesting, for more years.

[Crash Course]

Most times, the team "3 years later" is a very different team - the place in the standings, 3 years after the WS, and forward, is more a reflection on the ownership, than the players.

[Deep Blue]

Except that in this case there was an entire new ownership group also.

[Crash Course]

True, that's a good point. Maybe I should have said - Most times, the team "3 years later" is a very different team - the place in the standings, 3 years after the WS, and forward, is more a reflection on the ownership, or change in ownership, than the players.

[mgoettsche]

Most times, the team "3 years later" is a very different team - the place in the standings, 3 years after the WS, and forward, is more a reflection on the ownership, than the players.

Hmmm, it seems to be a mixed bag. I would argue that the mix of players is more a reflection of player's age than of ownership. Certainly at least half of the players on the roster will be different, but the core will remain if they are all relatively young (33 or younger) and still playing well.

Just looking at the teams in the SOTS, it seems like probably half the teams kept their core, the other half didn't.

[JamesI]

As for the suspensions, ARod did deserve 4 games. Variteck deserved 5 or 6.

[Crash Course]

I'm keeping those names, and I'll check them when I get Sickels' book next year. I'm not at home, so I can't see how he graded some of them this time around.

Since I got the Sickels 2005 book today in the mail, I thought I would update with the grades that John gave the players I mentioned:

I wrote:

Take out a pen and paper. Write down the names of the following current Yankee minor leaguers: Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Dioner Navarro, Andy Phillips, Bronson Sardinha, Eric Duncan, Tyler Clippard, Tim Battle, and Justin Christian. Save the piece of paper in a very safe place until the 2005 editions of Baseball Prospectus and John Sickel's The Baseball Prospect Book are published. Get those books and read what is written about the players mentioned herein. Then, tell us about the great dearth of Yankee prospects. Note, the players mentioned do not include any of the good prospects that the Yankees drafted in 2004 - such as Philip Hughes, Jon Poterson, or Jeff Marquez - who could be included in a deal next year, as part of a make good supplement to any deal made now.

The 2005 grades:

Cano = B-
Cabrera = B-
Navarro = B
Phillips = C
Sardinha = C+
Duncan = B+
Clippard = C+
Battle = no grade
Christian = no grade
Hughes = B
Poterson = no grade
Marquez = C

others doing well that I missed: Marcos Vechionacci = B, Chien-Ming Wang = B-, and Steven White = B -

yeah, the Yankee farm system is just without prospects whatsoever :willis:

[KCBOOMER]

I see we are still living in denial.

[Crash Course]

Boomer - you think Sickels is wrong on all those C+ and B grades?