Giambi's Status

[Crash Course]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1846688

Wow, if this is true, it changes a lot of what I've said in the past.

[TimmyB]

Thoughts and prayers to Jason...

[Crash Course]

From a baseball angle, funny, wasn't it just 4 months ago that some wondered what NY would do with three 1Bs, two CF, and just three slots at 1B, CF, and DH?

Kenny Lofton should play a lot over the next two months.

[mgoettsche]

Holy crap, this is depressing. I pray the results come back negative, and Jason can start living a healthy life again...

Weird, depressing thought, but how rare is this disease? I just hope that we aren't some day talking about Jason Giambi disease like we did with ALS.

[mainsr]

Never ever a favorite of mine, but of course I hope he's OK. I'd be willing to bet that when it's all said and done, he's got some virus or something. Has anybody ruled out Lyme?

[Crash Course]

Knowing Giambi, the only Lyme he sees is in his coconut when he mixes it all up.

[Crash Course]

Now, it's a tumor, but, in the words, sorta, of Larry David, it's the good kind. At least they finally put him on the DL. No word on where the tumor is - that concerns me, for his sake.

[Crash Course]

Gotta say this - 'tho, I just got ripped in another forum for saying it.........

There's some info to suggest that there's a link between the usage of HGH and cancer, or tumors.

Could be why NY is tight lipped on the where. If it's the liver. That could be a link yo HGH.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Lyle Alzado's family will tell you that there is a link between 'roids and cancer. Hard to prove, but then, the tobacco industry still maintains no link between their product and cancer, so...

[nyy26wc]

Lyle Alzado's family will tell you that there is a link between 'roids and cancer. Hard to prove, but then, the tobacco industry still maintains no link between their product and cancer, so...

Big difference between scientists saying there is a link between cigarettes and cancer and scientists being harshly divided on a link between steroids and cancer.

[Crash Course]

FWIW, my wife worked for many years in a radiation and oncology department in a hospital.

So, I asked her - is there a CHANCE that the tumor is connected to "using."

She said, yes, there's a chance - in fact, they (at the hospital) would sometimes see women, who, wanting to have a baby so bad, would increase their hormones (with shots, etc.), and then would end up with breast cancer, etc.

So, there's always a chance there may be a link in Giambi's case. It's not like it's 100% certain that, if he used HGH, there's no connection to the tumor.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Big difference between scientists saying there is a link between cigarettes and cancer and scientists being harshly divided on a link between steroids and cancer.

The Tobacco Institute has scientists that will argue that there is no link between tobacco use and cancer. That doesn't make it so.

If you have a couple of months with nothing to do, I suggest you read the correspondence between the Tobacco Institute and the American Cancer Society. They have written each other about 15,000 times since 1996 arguing about whether it's even possible to SUGGEST that tobacco use causes cancer.

All I'm saying is that Lyle Alzado was convinced that his rare form of brain cancer was related to his steroid use.

There is no way to prove that Giambi's steroid use is related to his tumor. But I sure as hell don't want to hold him up as a role model to some dumb high schooler who believes that 'roids will increase his chances of making the pros because, hey -- everyone's doing it.

If anyone should be the role model, it's Alzado. Hey kids -- if you want to make the pros, work your buns off and stay the hell away from the 'roids. You probably won't make it anyway, but you'll be a hell of a lot healthier.

[nyy26wc]

The Tobacco Institute has scientists that will argue that there is no link between tobacco use and cancer. That doesn't make it so.

If you have a couple of months with nothing to do, I suggest you read the correspondence between the Tobacco Institute and the American Cancer Society. They have written each other about 15,000 times since 1996 arguing about whether it's even possible to SUGGEST that tobacco use causes cancer.

I don't care what their scientists say. I don't consider them to be real "scientists" any more than I would consider the "doctors" at a law firm that I spent the most miserable months of my life working in (although it would be more appropriate to say "working") who declared every single client to be suffering from permanent life altering injuries.

But, I'm talking about the fact that, at least to my knowledge, there are scientists who doubt the link, who have not been linked to the industries who have vested interests in having a link disproved.

All I'm saying is that Lyle Alzado was convinced that his rare form of brain cancer was related to his steroid use.

And Lyle Alzado has absolutely no background in science to know that. He was the only one who made the diagnosis of a link. Not one doctor, who was involved in his case, made the link.

It sounds like if my grandmother had made the link between teaching kindergarten and the liver cancer that killed her. She never did, but let's compare the two individuals' credentials on diagnosing themselves. She had more decades teaching than Alzado had living, so certainly she had a longer link to teaching than Alzado could have had to steroids. But, having a disease doesn't give her any credibility to determine its cause, just like it gave Alzado no credibility, either.

[mainsr]

I think we can agree that whether it's tobacco, anabolic steroids, HGH, or estrogen, putting stuff in your body that doesn't belong there in the first place is probably not a good idea. (Before you jump on me, Crash: Yeah, HGH and estrogen occur naturally in the body. Not in the doses that we're talking about here, they don't.)

Looks like I was wrong about Giambi having a virus...Benign tumors are, in fact, benign. I don't quite know why that would cause fatigue, however.

[nyy26wc]

I think we can agree that whether it's tobacco, anabolic steroids, HGH, or estrogen, putting stuff in your body that doesn't belong there in the first place is probably not a good idea. (Before you jump on me, Crash: Yeah, HGH and estrogen occur naturally in the body. Not in the doses that we're talking about here, they don't.)

I will agree with that.

My real objection here is to the idea that someone like Lyle Alzado actually has the kind of knowledge of science necessary to be a credible source on how he got cancer.

[Crash Course]

This was interesting: http://www.etaiwannews.com/Sports/2004/08/04/1091593752.htm

Numerous publications in prestigious medical and scientific journals show elevated IGF-1 levels - the chemical triggered by growth hormone that is used to, among other things, build muscle bulk and improve cardiac performance - are strongly associated with major excess risks of colon, prostate, brain and breast cancers, as well as tumors.

[ronh]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/18595.htm

I find it curious as to the big secret about where Giambi's tumor is. I can't think of why the location hasn't been disclosed.

Any opinions?

[Crash Course]

Personally, I think MLB, the MLBPA, the Yankees, and Giambi, are using the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 as a shield to hide the location/type as that information would be a good link to confirm that it's related to the use of HGH.

But, that's just IMHO.

[RichG]

What business of ours is it where his tumor is located? I'm a private person and I would be reluctant to issue any information that wasn't required unless it it was a part of a contract I had previously agreed to

[nyy26wc]

What business of ours is it where his tumor is located? I'm a private person and I would be reluctant to issue any information that wasn't required unless it it was a part of a contract I had previously agreed to

I agree.

[ronh]

In the past, every detail has been released about a players disease. It never was an issue.

Why Giambi would want to be the first to withhold this info is my question.

I'm beginning to agree with Crash.

But if that is true the word should be getting out to all other persons using the same drugs he possibly used.

[nyy26wc]

In the past, every detail has been released about a players disease. It never was an issue.

All details have been released? OK, tell us all of the specifics about Eric Davis's cancer. If the details have been released to us, it shouldn't be that hard for you to provide them.

How about all of the details of Steve Bechler's death. How much was it caused by the supplement? How much of the supplement did he reguarly take? For how long? How many times was he warned by any doctor about it? What exactly were the signs in his medical reports that he was a candidate for a problem, or if they weren't there, what signs in physicals lured the doctors into a false sense of security? These are certain important details about a player's health. If we have been provided with them, as you say we have been, let's here about it.

[mgoettsche]

You're right, we don't get every single detail. However, it isn't unusual to expect to get more details...I can't think of any other celebrity or public figure who has suffered from cancer where that celebrity has been mum about virtually every detail, such as location, size, treatment, recovery time, etc. We received all this information for Eric Davis.

There are only a couple of types of cancer that I think a person would want to keep it private (breast and testicular), but for the most part we hear those details from folks as well (Galarraga of course comes to mind). That Giambi is mum certainly lends fuel to the fire regarding steroid use. It is his right to keep it private, but it is highly unusual.

This doesn't just apply to public figures either. Whenever I've heard of people having cancer (ranging the spectrum from close friends to name recognition), I can't recall a case where I haven't also found out what type of cancer. I've never received an answer about it "being private".

[Crash Course]

I think that many people in the public eye have learned that, if you don't want people to run with crazy stories about you based on rumor, it's best to tell the story yourself to ensure that the truth is known. By not giving any info, Giambi is leaving this open to public gossip. Fine, that's his choice. But, then, he also cannot gripe about all the wild speculation. (As far as I know, he has not - but, if he wants to bitch later, he should not.) Only he has the power to stop it - by sharing the truth.

[ronh]

Steve Bechler's death is the subject of a lawsuit. Details will come out if it goes to trial. It's not fair to either side for the details to come out before the trial.

So is Giambi going to sue Conte?

[Crash Course]

Can an addict sue their pusher?

[KCBOOMER]

Can an addict sue their pusher?


In America with our overabundance of ambulance chasers anyone can sue anyone over anything.

As for Giambi, his tumor is his business. He doesn't have to tell us anything about it if he doesn't want to. What we wish to think about it is our business, though.

MLB and MLBPA agreeing to keep this secret is absurd. They have never agreed on anything and this would be too perfect for MLB not to use it as a club for stronger drug testing.

[nyy26wc]

Can an addict sue their pusher?

Not unless he wants to be arrested when the information in the complaint is used against him and get the case thrown out of court while he's at it.

[mainsr]

Can an addict sue their pusher?

Isn't that essentially the basis of most of the tobacco litigation?

[nyy26wc]

Isn't that essentially the basis of most of the tobacco litigation?

In order to bring the two into the same category, I believe you'd need to prove that drug pushers have scientists working for them that produced data that showed the hazards of the product and the pushers continued to sell them without adequate regard to consumer safety.

[mainsr]

In order to bring the two into the same category, I believe you'd need to prove that drug pushers have scientists working for them that produced data that showed the hazards of the product and the pushers continued to sell them without adequate regard to consumer safety.

I'm not going to get into this after this, since I don't want Crash whistling me for irrelevancy, but people who started smoking after the Surgeon General started putting warnings on the packages need to take responsibility for their own self-destructive actions, IMHO. Prior to then--what was it, '64?--I agree with your analogy.

[nyy26wc]

I'm not going to get into this after this, since I don't want Crash whistling me for irrelevancy, but people who started smoking after the Surgeon General started putting warnings on the packages need to take responsibility for their own self-destructive actions, IMHO. Prior to then--what was it, '64?--I agree with your analogy.

Just to clear up what my analogy was referring to--

It has nothing to do with the merits of the cases, to which I agree that this is not the proper forum to address. Instead, it was just to point out what feature in those cases allow the plaintiffs to bring suit without immediately being thrown out of court, but would be lacking in a case vs. a drug pusher.

[Crash Course]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/29462.htm

Yankees must have seen this coming - and is probably why they went after Olerud like they did

[Crash Course]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/228567p-196282c.html

the treatment, "hair of the dog that bit ya"?

[Crash Course]

Hmmmmmmmmm

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041202&content_id=917710&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

Bothered by a balky knee, Giambi hit just .250 in 2003. Giambi batted .208 and played in only 80 games in 2004, missing time because of a tumor, which the New York Daily News reported was in his pituitary gland. Medical experts told the Chronicle that Clomid, a drug Giambi said he thought Anderson had given him, can exacerbate a tumor of the pituitary gland.