Another Morganism...

[mgoettsche]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=morgan_joe&id=1800220

No surprise that Joe is riding Bench here...

I'm curious what he was smoking when he says:

"The catcher has historically been a power hitter in the lineup". Huh? In comparison to who, the manager?

[Crash Course]

During the 1976 World Series, my manager with the Cincinnati Reds, Sparky Anderson, said something that I've always remembered. We were playing the New York Yankees, and Yankees catcher Thurman Munson was having an unbelievable series (he hit .529 in our four-game sweep).

The New York media were comparing Munson to our catcher. But Sparky said: Don't embarrass any catcher by trying to compare him to Johnny Bench. By the way, Bench won the World Series MVP with even better numbers than Munson: .533, two home runs and six RBI.

So over the years, when the discussion turned to catchers, I always said I'd never compare another catcher to Bench ... until I saw Ivan Rodriguez. None of today's young catchers remind me of Bench -- none are even close -- but Rodriguez has reminded me most of Bench. I always believed Sparky was right until I saw Pudge play.

Sparky certainly lacked class there.

[Crash Course]

More on the above: http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/showpost.php?p=45681&postcount=30

back on topic - Bench was the best all-around.
Pudge II, No. 2?
Where's Bill Freehan if Pudge is #2?

[KCBOOMER]

Of the top 100 HR hitters only six were really catchers (Bench, Piazza, Fisk, Berra, Carter and Parrish) and none of them are in the 400+ category though Piazza might get there next season. This production is not terribly different from the 3B and may be better than SS and 2B. 3B' s aren't even remotely close the 1B's and OF's.

As for Anderson's remark it lacked tact but vis a vis Munson and Bench it was accurate. Munson was a good player while Bench was a great one. Sparky could have very easily eluded to Munson's fine play without a reference to Bench. I remember seeing that interview live. The impression I got was that it was a comment made in the euphoria of the moment to praise his own player. I don't believe Sparky had any intention of demeaning Munson.


Freehan would be down around 20th. They have been a number of fine all-around cathers in their day. Cochrane, Berra, Campanella, Fisk, Carter, Parrish, Shang, Ewing, Posada (don't overlook this guy), Hartnett, Dickey, etc.

[sweaver]

Sparky certainly lacked class there.
I'd say Sparky was right on the money. If the truth lacks class, too bad.

I-Rod isn't #2 yet, but he may be eventually.

[sweaver]

Freehan would be down around 20th. They have been a number of fine all-around cathers in their day. Cochrane, Berra, Campanella, Fisk, Carter, Parrish, Shang, Ewing, Posada (don't overlook this guy), Hartnett, Dickey, etc.
Freehan is #16, IMO.

[TimmyB]

Bench is number one, no doubt. Joe is on target there. I-Rod #2? I can't buy that. I always get the feeling he's just a bit over-rated. But, then again, I thought he'd be old and stink it up last season. :rolleyes:

[nightal]

I generally disagree with most of what Morgan says, but here (as far as his take on Bench), he's right on. Anderson was also on the money (class or no class).

[hmrsf]

I'd say Sparky was right on the money. If the truth lacks class, too bad.

I-Rod isn't #2 yet, but he may be eventually.

I had my head scratching on that one too. I am with you Swev.

Care to explain Wolf?

[WiredTiger]

I'd say Sparky was right on the money. If the truth lacks class, too bad.
I'd have to agree with that. I am guessing there probably was more to that quote because Sparky was usually one to praise players and not tear them down.

[TimmyB]

You ever get the feeling the ESPN writers read each other's stuff and don't always agree?

Neyer put in his two cents on the best catchers debate:
Bench-mark position (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1800264)

1. Johnny Bench
2. Yogi Berra
3. Carlton Fisk
4. Bill Dickey
5. Gabby Hartnett
6. Roy Campanella
7. Mike Piazza
8. Mickey Cochrane
9. Gary Carter
10. Ivan Rodriguez

Back on topic:
I don't see the problem with this...
Don't embarrass any catcher by trying to compare him to Johnny Bench.

It's not a jab at Munson. It's the truth. Bench in '76 was heads and shoulders above any catcher ever. (For obvious reasons the book is out on Josh Gibson... so we can get technical and say "ever who played in Major League Baseball.")

Even today, with Piazza and Rodriguez thrown into the mix, the answer is still Bench.

[sweaver]

Neyer has Carter much too low......

[pwdennis]

I think Neyer has put together a pretty reasonable listing:

1. Johnny Bench
2. Yogi Berra
3. Carlton Fisk
4. Bill Dickey
5. Gabby Hartnett
6. Roy Campanella
7. Mike Piazza
8. Mickey Cochrane
9. Gary Carter
10. Ivan Rodriguez

I would have Berra #1 with Bench at #2 . I would move Campy up to #4 giving him some credit for the late start to his career due to baseball's tardiness in becoming fully integrated. It's getting hard to ignore Piazza and I-Rod. Bill Dickey essentially had a four season career (1936-1939) corresponding with the absolute peak of the AL offensive explosion that seems totally out of context with the rest of his career. Subtract that and he played 13 seasons with 100 HRs with 749 RBI. My list reads as follows:

Berra
Bench
Fisk
Campy
Carter
Piazza
I-Rod
Cochrane
Dickey
Gabby

[sweaver]

While Dickey did play in an excellent offensive era, largely forgotten is how great he was with the glove. Dickey was the Yankees' catching tutor for many years, working with Berra and Elston Howard, among others.