Decrease in African Americans in Baseball

[Crash Course]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/baseball/mlb/oakland_athletics/8250330.htm

Two facts in this one jumped out at me:

The figures are dramatic enough that on Opening Night at the Metrodome, fans likely will witness the only African-American starting pitcher in the American League in Cleveland's C.C. Sabathia and the only all-African-American starting outfield in the league in the Twins' trio of Shannon Stewart, Hunter and Jacque Jones.


and

Many suggest some scouts are reluctant to spend much time in some of the more dangerous city neighborhoods - and not just white scouts.

"Actually, in Oakland, where I've resided for years, I'm scared to go in there," said Twins first-base coach Jerry White, who is black. "And I live there. And that's where all the talent is."

Powerful perceptions, founded in varying degrees of truth, also might fuel the cycle.

"I'll tell you straight up," Hunter said. "If a black scout goes in there and finds a black kid in the hood because white scouts won't go in that neighborhood and then comes back with a report that says, 'Hey, this dude was like the best,' they won't believe them. They'll think he's trying to help the kid get out of the neighborhood.

"I've seen some guys 10 times better than I was where I'm from. Ten times!"

Baseball officials flatly reject that notion.


Just one African-American starting pitcher in the American League?

Something is wrong. Really wrong. If that's the case.
And, maybe Hunter is on to something there. So, what can/should be done?

[hmrsf]

If there is untapped talent, MLB will find it.

Some of the revenue sharing money should be going into community outreach and to help promote the game. Disadvantaged kids won't be hanging out in the high schools never mind colleges. MLB should set up inner city athletic clubs and the talent will come to them.

Promote health education and love of baseball. I bet a few ball players will come out of these programs.

[LeGrandOrange]

I think the statement about there being only one African-American starting pitcher in the AL is incorrect, because I think Dewon Brazleton is in Tampa's rotation. And if Robert Person has a good spring, that's three.

I also think the statement is mostly an attempt to make a big deal out of something that I don't think really is one. I looked up 1989 AL stats, and of 73 pitchers that started 13 or more times, only two were African-American to my knowledge, Dave Stewart and Tom Gordon. I don't recall people making a big deal about a lack of Afro-Americans 15 years ago. More of the pitchers were white then because there were only a handful of latinos mixed into that group of 73.

[Joseph]

If there is untapped talent, MLB will find it.

Some of the revenue sharing money should be going into community outreach and to help promote the game. Disadvantaged kids won't be hanging out in the high schools never mind colleges. MLB should set up inner city athletic clubs and the talent will come to them.

Promote health education and love of baseball. I bet a few ball players will come out of these programs.

The RBI program is a great start ( http://www.harlemrbi.org/ ), I just hope that baseball will continue its efforts.

[hmrsf]

Come to think of it, I don't recall a lot of African American starting pitchers. Great hitters few starters. Good pick up LGO! :thumb:


So what is the agenda? :(

[Crash Course]

I also think the statement is mostly an attempt to make a big deal out of something that I don't think really is one. I looked up 1989 AL stats, and of 73 pitchers that started 13 or more times, only two were African-American to my knowledge, Dave Stewart and Tom Gordon. I don't recall people making a big deal about a lack of Afro-Americans 15 years ago.

FWIW, in 1946, there were no black pitchers in the AL, too. ;)
Just because the number was low before this season, doesn't make it right.

But, maybe the issue is just pitchers - and people are looking at that and should be looking at the total picture instead? Picture not pitchers! :stinker: The report should focus on the total number of African-American players now - not just pitchers.

[pwdennis]

I think there may be a cultural aspect to the relative lack of black participation in baseball

(1) one player cannot dominate like in basketball (although Tracy McGrady this year has proved that even in basketball you need some help)

(2) baseball places the least emphasis on sheer athleticism. It is quite possible for a out-of-shape baseball player to be a very successful pitcher or hitter. It offends a lot of black pitchers the notion that a pudgy white batter can take them deep

My stepsons both were involved in high school wrestling so I got to meet a lot of black athletes at the wrestling meets. Many of them played other sports but few of them played baseball, the prevailing attitude seemingly being "If I'm faster, more agile, and stronger, but someone athletically inferior can beat me, then it can't be much of a sport"

Baseball is the ultimate skill team sport

[LeGrandOrange]

Thanks for the compliment hmrsf...love ya. :)

And Crash, of course there were no African-American pitchers in 1946. The point I was making was that I don't think the problem with black pitchers in 2004 is any different from situations that arose over a decade ago. Just seems like a bigger deal now.

YOUR point about the big picture is one that I recall being addressed a few months ago in an article which was discussed here at NS...I don't know if there was analysis in the article, but I know it addressed it. It was a popular subject of debut in the media then, and it still is. 10 bucks says I'll see another one during the year.

Anyway, that picture has been looked at...but not closely.

[WiredTiger]

I think it is a cultral reason more than anything else. The popularity of baseball in the Latin communities has lead to a high number of Latin baseball players. And the success of Ichiro and Nomo and the like has lead to an infusion of Asian ball players. I don't think African-Americans are suffering losses any more than the normal American.

As for it being too dangerous... I don't buy it. I have to believe that a MLB team would find a player no matter where they are. Are you telling me that Oakland is more dangerous than Latin America?

[shultzy65]

at last count i think there were about 20 or so aussies in the minor/major leagues - most of them young guys starting out.

being from another country i have always thought MLB was pretty racially diverse (of course i am aware of the pre jackie robinson era). The NBA is more diverse but basketball is a big sport world wide whereas baseball is still only very big in the america's and parts of asia.

One possible answer could popularity changes in various sports have impacted on which ones kids like playing. I do know that cricket in the West Indies (jamaica, barbados etc) has taken a big fall in popularity due to the success of NBA in spreading its gospel around the globe. Likewise, i am sure that the European Gridiron league will, over time, chip away at the number of kids automatically playing soccer over there. Rugby, Golf and Tennis have certainly gained popularity in former soccer only countries...

In any case, if the game is good then people will play it - maybe its just that baseball needs to recapture its crown as THE game rather than just one of the games to play...make it so all kids from all backgrounds really want to play ball.

[rc3000]

I remember taking a course in school which was basically sociology and sports. Looking at the different eras and how that eras inner-city culture used sports to get out and succeed. One example was the Italian influence on Baseball/Boxing in the 40's and 50's. The theory being that Baseball and Boxing were the "easy" way (and also the only sports you could get a lot of money playing at the time) to get out of the inner city and since Italians were the dominant immigration in the 20's->30's they were dominant in the sport at the time of the 30's and 40's. His point was that today (by which I mean the late 80's when I took the course) basketball was the dominant sport of the inner city. Economically it only takes a basketball to play the sport,the availability of hoops,etc.. This combined with the high salaries in the NBA and the stories of people that did make it pushed the inner city youth trying to escape through sports to focus on hoops. How does MLB reverse this, I have no idea.
I personally don't buy the idea that scouts are "afraid" to go into the inner city. I just think MLB organizations tend to be followers of trends. Right now Japan/Latin America are the areas of focus (baseball still the dominant sport in these cultures) so a lot of resources go towards these areas.

[pathogan]

I think there may be a cultural aspect to the relative lack of black participation in baseball

(1) one player cannot dominate like in basketball (although Tracy McGrady this year has proved that even in basketball you need some help)

(2) baseball places the least emphasis on sheer athleticism. It is quite possible for a out-of-shape baseball player to be a very successful pitcher or hitter. It offends a lot of black pitchers the notion that a pudgy white batter can take them deep

My stepsons both were involved in high school wrestling so I got to meet a lot of black athletes at the wrestling meets. Many of them played other sports but few of them played baseball, the prevailing attitude seemingly being "If I'm faster, more agile, and stronger, but someone athletically inferior can beat me, then it can't be much of a sport"

Baseball is the ultimate skill team sport



...I really dont know what you're saying.It offends black pitchers if fat players hit it out, but white pitchers shrug it off? that is arrant nonsense,perhaps Im reading this wrong?

[Crash Course]

Could it be that...... because the NBA and NFL tends to field teams of so many African-Americans that African-Americans with great sports skills have options, and MLB is staying away from them because they don't want to get into bidding wars?

[satchel]

pwdennis, are you arguing that, for cultural reasons, black athletes prefer sports in which the athletic acheivement of a single individual can make more difference to the outcome - such as basketball?

Or are you saying there is a cultural factor that keeps African-American kids from wanting to be pitchers?

If kids are playing baseball at all in predominantly black neighborhoods, somebody has to pitch. Some of them are probably quite good at it. What happens to those kids? Do they just prefer some other sport or not go into pro sports at all?

Also, I'm not sure how football fits into your theory. It's true that there are many black athletes in the "glory" positions of wide receiver and running back, but there are also many in the relative anonymity of the line, and very, very few at quarterback.

[Craig S.]

I think marketing has a great deal to do with it - the NBA has done a fantastic job of marketing their game to African-American kids (and kids in general), while MLB has been operating for too long with very little effort made towards reaching out to fans.

Kids see guys like TMac, Kobe and Shaq all over flashy ads, endorsements, and NBA commercials, while baseball players exist mainly in anonymity. Seems obvious that kids are going to want the glory that apparently goes with a league like the NBA.

[pwdennis]

pwdennis, are you arguing that, for cultural reasons, black athletes prefer sports in which the athletic acheivement of a single individual can make more difference to the outcome - such as basketball?

Or are you saying there is a cultural factor that keeps African-American kids from wanting to be pitchers?

If kids are playing baseball at all in predominantly black neighborhoods, somebody has to pitch. Some of them are probably quite good at it. What happens to those kids? Do they just prefer some other sport or not go into pro sports at all?

Also, I'm not sure how football fits into your theory. It's true that there are many black athletes in the "glory" positions of wide receiver and running back, but there are also many in the relative anonymity of the line, and very, very few at quarterback.

Not really a theory, more of an observation. I work with a fair number of black people, and none of them seem especially interested in baseball, which I think is their loss.

[hmrsf]

I work with a whole bunch of white lesbians and they are not into baseball, they are into hockey. :cool:

I would not make a leap in saying that white lesbians are into hockey because I work with some. :dizzy:

[pwdennis]

I work with a whole bunch of white lesbians and they are not into baseball, they are into hockey. :cool:

I would not make a leap in saying that white lesbians are into hockey because I work with some. :dizzy:

No but apparently it would be a valid observation, if that is indeed what you've observed. My observations occurred over a 25 year period. There is nothing theoretical about it, it's merely what I've observed.

I wish that more people of whatever ethnicity were interested in baseball, since I regard it as the greatest of all team sports

[KCBOOMER]

This sounds like a scenario where the Royals old idea of a baseball academy would really turn up some talent for teams that would fund them.

[captain_napalm]

This sounds like a scenario where the Royals old idea of a baseball academy would really turn up some talent for teams that would fund them.
Why did they stop the baseball academy?

I don't know why there aren't more African Americans playing the game. We play baseball at all other levels. There really isn't a good reason for not playing.

It's a mystery to me.

[KCBOOMER]

Why did they stop the baseball academy?

In their infinite wisdom they felt it was too expensive. It cost about $1M a year. In the early 70's that was real money. I would guess that the existence of the draft stops a team from starting this again in the U.S.

[satchel]

I wish that more people of whatever ethnicity were interested in baseball, since I regard it as the greatest of all team sports
I agree with that. :) My own observations of the lack of interest in baseball among blacks I have known also agree with yours. I was asking more specifically about your conclusion that there is a cultural reason black people won't like baseball (or more specifically, pitching), having to do with the nature of the pitcher/batter interaction.

[Crash Course]

I wonder, how many caucasians are among the full time position player for all of the 2004 "contenders"? According to our polls, the Angels, A's, Yanks, Red Sox, Twins, Royals, Phillies, Cubs, Giants, and Padres are the contenders.

I know on the Yankees, the only "FT PP caucasian" is Giambi. Matsui is Japanese. Williams and Posada are from PR. A-Rod and Wilson are from the DR. Sheffield, Jeter and Lofton are black.

Can anyone "do" any of the other teams? I think the Red Sox only have 3 "FT PP caucasians" - Millar, Varitek, and Nixon, IIRC. The Angels have 4, I think?

[rc3000]

I wonder, how many caucasians are among the full time position player for all of the 2004 "contenders"? According to our polls, the Angels, A's, Yanks, Red Sox, Twins, Royals, Phillies, Cubs, Giants, and Padres are the contenders.

I know on the Yankees, the only "FT PP caucasian" is Giambi. Matsui is Japanese. Williams and Posada are from PR. A-Rod and Wilson are from the DR. Sheffield, Jeter and Lofton are black.

Can anyone "do" any of the other teams? I think the Red Sox only have 3 "FT PP caucasians" - Millar, Varitek, and Nixon, IIRC. The Angels have 4, I think?
I am not sure of your point in this survey. Is this a question of diversity of these organizations ?

The Sox original projected line up (excluding Nixon's injury) includes the following :

Caucasion Players
Varitek - catcher
Millar - 1B
Muellar - 3rd
Nixon - RF

Black Player
Reese -2nd

Mexican Player
Garciaparra - SS

Puerto Rican Player
Ramirez LF

Thai Player
Damon CF

Once again I am interested in the intent of your post.

[Crash Course]

My point: Maybe the game is not as white as some of the stats (like the CC only SP in the AL thing) make it out to be?

[rc3000]

My point: Maybe the game is not as white as some of the stats (like the CC only SP in the AL thing) make it out to be?

Thanks.

Gordon Edes brought up the point in regards to the Red Sox last year. Last year there were no African-American players in the starting line up. The consesus around here (talk radio), was that this was an unfair shot because there was diversity on the team, Ortiz, Pedro, Manny,etc. I don't think the Edes point, or the point of this article was that the league is becoming "whiter" but what has happened in the African-American community that there has been nearly a 50% drop in players in the past 9 years. Although there were some disturbing quotes such as afraid to go into communities or as one player pointed out "There were other players better" which imply racism, I think Hunter brought up the best point when he went back home his league was disbanded and the more expensive league was thriving. Hopefully MLB will be increasing its investment in the inner city or any other poor communities to make it affordable for more kids. This will take a while but hopefully this can help reverse the trend.

[captain_napalm]

My point: Maybe the game is not as white as some of the stats (like the CC only SP in the AL thing) make it out to be?
Agreed. I'd rather it be that people look at rosters than looking at a segment of a team. I've often wonder if a player that could be (or was) a pitcher is moved to another part of the diamond.

[Crash Course]

This one http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4616697/ has some interesting stats and quotes:

The numbers of African Americans in Major League Baseball are dwindling. In 1975, 27 percent of major leaguers were African Americans. By 1996 that number plummeted to 19 percent. Eight years later it stands at 10 percent.

Scouts who once combed the inner cities for talent now circulate almost exclusively in the suburbs, where predominantly white players have more time at their disposal and parents who not only have time to shuttle them to and from practices, but the money to buy $250 aluminum bats and private instructors.


"(Michael) Jordan had a lot to do with it," A's general manager Billy Beane said. "He had a big impact on kids wanting to play basketball."


Baseball players struggle for the same name recognition in a culture that increasingly celebrates flamboyant athletes who become the center of attention.

That may be acceptable behavior in the NBA, where finger wagging, chest thumping and rim hanging are en vogue, or even in the NFL, where players celebrate even modest accomplishments with choreographed gyrations.

In baseball, "showing up" another player is considered a violation of the "code." A hitter admiring a home run or a pitcher pumping his fist after a critical out can result in retaliation. For a kid immersed in the look-at-me culture, baseball may be a difficult sport to identify with.


I disagree with that last point. Just look at the recent post season - esp. the A's-Bosox series.

[rpackrat]

I read recently that Latinos have surpassed African-Americans as the largest minority group in the U.S. When you factor in their diminishing presence (as a percentage of population) in the U.S. as a whole, along with the increased international presence in MLB, I'm not so sure that the lower percentage of African-American MLB players is due to such sinister motives. As for the dearth of African-American starting pitchers: I have not researched this, so I could certainly be wrong, but I have been a baseball fan for more than 30 years, and I necer recall a large number of African-American starting pitchers. Except for catcher, starting pitcher has always been (in my anecdotal observation, at least) the position with the lowest African-American representation.

[Crash Course]

It's still a popular story in the media - here's a new one: http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/sports/8361773.htm

[Crash Course]

Ten days later, yet another story on this:

http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2004/04/15/news/sports/sports03.txt

BOSTON — Ellis Burks has looked around the diamonds of the major leagues and knows he might be part of a dying breed.

"I've seen the decline," said the veteran Red Sox designated hitter. "It's as blatant as hell."

As Major League Baseball celebrates Jackie Robinson Day today, the decline of African-American ballplayers is a troubling reality for the league.

While the numbers of Latin and Asian ballplayers have increased in recent years, those positions have come at the expense of black ballplayers.

The numbers don't lie, and they tell a disturbing tale.

In 1990, the Red Sox had only two black ballplayers on their 25-man roster — Ellis Burks and Lee Smith.

As the number of black ballplayers in the majors gradually increased during the 90's so did the number of African-American players in the Red Sox clubhouse.

As recently as 1999, Boston had 11 black ballplayers appear in at least one game for them that season, but the Red Sox start this season with only three African-Americans on their 25-man roster — Burks, Pokey Reese and Bobby Jones.

It is a downward trend not unique to the Red Sox.

As recently as 10 years ago, 19 percent of the ballplayers in the major leagues were African-Americans. Today, that percentage is below 10 and there are few signs of reversing those numbers.

[sweaver]

I'm not sure how the Red Sox having 2 African-Americans in 1990, 11 in 1999, and 3 today is the sign of a trend.........but that's just me.

[nyy26wc]

I'm not sure how the Red Sox having 2 African-Americans in 1990, 11 in 1999, and 3 today is the sign of a trend.........but that's just me.

I'd call that a trend, but not one of the sort that you see in the media.

Those numbers tell me it's part of the general trend of life that things are cyclical and people shouldn't be so quick to cry about the death of whatever and just assume that it true today will continue to be true in the future.

[mgoettsche]

A little delayed chiming in on this, but...

I'd agree that the decline in the number of inner city ballplayers (not just black) is largely a result of economics, on several different levels.

Baseball used to be THE national pasttime. Every town across the country had at least a semipro team, and how the team performed used to be a great matter of pride. There was a tremendous sense of community, with ballplayers passing on their knowledge to the local kids by coaching or just spending time with them. This held true in the inner cities as well, where often times a big league ballplayer might often be a next door neighbor. With this support system, it is natural that a large number of inner city kids developed into great ballplayers.

So what happened? Baseball became a big business. Franchises started moving, ballplayers started switching between teams, and ballplayers started to make a lot of money. In a lot of cases, ballplayers left their neighborhoods, and while still respected, the deeply personal connection between baseball and the community was transformed to something less meaningful. This was baseball's greatest asset in becoming America's national pasttime, and without it, other sports made headway.

With this backdrop, the following factors squeezed baseball out of the inner cities as a factor for developing ball players:

1) The primacy of high school athletics. Baseball has long been a summer sport, and while teenagers might play on their spring high school team, they really looked forward to summer all-star leagues (at least this is how it was where I grew up). Thus, the school system did not emphasize baseball as a big school sport, and once the community's attention focussed on high school sports, baseball was squeezed out.

The community's focus shifted to those fall and winter sports that the school sponsored, namely football and basketball. Both were found to be revenue generating sports, and when schools fell on hard times, it was easy to short change baseball...on equipment, on space, on coaching, etc. While most schools did not totally abandon baseball, it certainly was deemphasized to the point that it could only survive through volunteerism.

2) Lack of structure. Wtihout HS funding baseball development, it was contingent on some part of the community to do this. Unfortunately, with few exceptions, the community simply wasn't willing to fund programs to provide space, equipment, etc to local baseball programs. Without this structure, kids are going to lean towards other activities that are easier for them to control. For sports, its a lot easier to play pick up basketball than it is to play pick up baseball.

MLB could have provided structure, but instead focussed on developing Latin American talent. IMO, this was a good move...not as much competition for other activities, kids played year round, you could sign kids to contract at a young age. Their RBI program is a shell of what it needs to be if people are serious about developing inner city talent.

3) Marketing and TV. Enough has already been said about this...MLB just hasn't been effective in marketing itself.

I'm afraid baseball's halcyon days are over, and unless a lot of the great ballplayers of the '70s and '80s get back into the inner cities and develop the structure needed for baseball to compete for young kids attention, the trend is going to continue downwards.

[Crash Course]

Yet another article on this: http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/sports/8472978.htm

a SOTS on this may be overdue!

[Crash Course]

Two months later, and some are still running with this story: http://www.mlive.com/sports/grpress/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/108610130613970.xml

It's out lived BALCO, which I guess is a good thing.

[pathogan]

Two months later, and some are still running with this story: http://www.mlive.com/sports/grpress/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/108610130613970.xml

It's out lived BALCO, which I guess is a good thing.


...a good article