Todd Bertuzzi

[Crash Course]

Any thoughts on this situation?

[hmrsf]

Wrong. 8910

[pathogan]

8910...hockey is a tough game,and unlike baseball, you cant hide .This though was criminal in its result if not intent. i was watching this game, and turned it off in the 1st period becuase it was too chippy.Bertuzzi will be a target for years to come,now,literally. and probably will miss the rest of this season, and part of next, i reckon... :( :(

[RedSeat]

It was an egregious offense and merits a lengthy suspension. I'm torn on the issue of criminal prosecution, though. Many "legal" hockey moves would be considered assault outside the context of the game. Sure, there is a line that can be crossed, where it has to be prosecuted, but I'm not sure where that line is.

Though the injury is more severe in this case, I thought the McSorley hit was more worthy of prosecution, because of the use of the stick. This was a cheap shot from behind, but was it really all that different from hits we see all the time? The big difference was that Moore fell awkwardly.

Wrong? Yes. Tragic? Yes. Criminal? I just don't know.

[rc3000]

I thought the McSorley hit was more worthy of prosecution, because of the use of the stick.

I agree. It seems to me that the authorities become involved if the stick is used. I remember the Dave Forbes situation which was prosecuted the main reason being the use of a potentially deadly weapon. I think if they did try to prosecute it would be difficult because the arguement could be made that although a cheap shot the most damage happened after the became tangled and went to the ice.

As a fan of hockey I have never been able to understand the concept of fights, cheap shots just being "part of the game".

[WiredTiger]

A very cheap shot. Bertuzzi just sucker punched him and then jumped on him. I know the Cannucks where upset that Moore had injured Naslund with a perceived cheap shot but I think those goes beyond the call of getting even. Bertuzzi really should be suspended for the rest of this season and part of next.

[Skip]

pat - the 8910 was hmrsf just filling up the required 10 spaces for a minimum length post.

Things like this are why I cannot become a real fan of hockey. This is a terrible situation, but when you glorify and promote violence things like this are increasingly likely to happen. The shot in question could have been just as bad and just as cheap, but if the guy hadn't gotten so hurt, it would have been (basically) laughed off.

[pathogan]

pat - the 8910 was hmrsf just filling up the required 10 spaces for a minimum length post.

Things like this are why I cannot become a real fan of hockey. This is a terrible situation, but when you glorify and promote violence things like this are increasingly likely to happen. The shot in question could have been just as bad and just as cheap, but if the guy hadn't gotten so hurt, it would have been (basically) laughed off.

...violence is built in.Hockey to me is similar to Jackson Pollock:either you get him or not,the violence is controlled[mostly]...Hell, I remmeber Wayne Maki hitting Teddy Green with his stick disabling him for a couple of years.Literally. I dont see where this is more voilent then football,or boxing or wrestling... :2cents:

[LeGrandOrange]

When I saw the replay for the first time, I was absolutely appalled by it. That is one of the cheapest shots I have ever seen.

That's a one-year suspension if there ever was one, and more than that potentially. I mean, the McSorley incident a couple years ago looks quite tame in comparison...the intent on Todd's part was incredibly deliberate and ridiculous. And why the hell is he picking on rookies anyway...it's just stupid, stupid, stupid...

Todd was a great power forward and he had to throw his good reputation away by cheap shotting a defenseless rookie...absolutely f***ing pathetic.

[Craig S.]

I have no problem with the Canucks retaliating for Moore's hit on Naslund a couple of weeks back. The way it should have been, though, was not a sneak attack from behind - especially not from Bertuzzi. At 6-3 and about 250 pounds, I think Bertuzzi could have either layed Moore out with a clean hit, or simply beat the hell out of him in a fight.

I know a lot of the people who post here don't think cheap hits are part of the game of hockey, but they are. Because of the nature of the game - the fighting in the corners, the constant hits, the sticks in your ribs or back of your legs - it's almost impossible not to lose your temper on occasion. If you spend 3 shifts with some guy hounding you, taking periodic whacks at your unprotected wrists, it's pretty easy to just turn around with a nice two-handed slash or a glove/elbow to the head. It's easy to know that you shouldn't do it, but it's another to actually show restraint.

However, even in a sport filled with cheap shots, what Bertuzzi did was way across the line. Anyone who's a player or fan knows what can happen when a guy falls face-first on the ice, as with Moore or Kevin Stevens several years ago. And while I don't think Bertuzzi knew that his hit would cause this much damage, he definitely knew that the potential to do harm was there.

I don't think Bertuzzi meant to put Moore out for the season, but he was reckless and purposeful in his intent. I think he should be suspended not only for the rest of the regular season, but also for the playoffs. If he gets off with anything short of that, then what effect does it really have? Vancouver will coast into the playoffs either way, and Bertuzzi would simply be well-rested for the postseason. It has to be severe if the league wants to keep any level of credibility.

[rc3000]

I know a lot of the people who post here don't think cheap hits are part of the game of hockey, but they are.

I agree retaliation (cheap hits,fights) is a part of every sport, in the heat of the moment. Baseball seems to be the only other sport where retaliation is a part of game strategy. In no other sport do I see fighting as a strategy (boxing excluded :) ). It just amazes me that it is done or that it is allowed. Yes I know it is a physical, high speed contact sport, but so isn't football. I am getting off topic, I'll stop now.

Before you think I am bashing hockey keep in mind it is my second favorite sport.

[Craig S.]

It just amazes me that it is done or that it is allowed.

I completely agree with that part, especially about it being "allowed" - they'll happen, but they should also be punished severely. And seeing how Bertuzzi's hit is an extreme example, he should get a lengthy punishment. The biggest difference between his and other cheap shots is that it was obviously pre-meditated, much like Dale Hunter's hit on Pierre Turgeon long after he scored a goal, or some of the knee-to-knee blows that Bryan Marchment has given.

The NHL has had many chances to step up and take a stand against these kinds of acts in the past, and they've never done so. It would be nice if they could, for once, mete out the punishment deserved.

[LeGrandOrange]

I have no problem with cheap shots...usually. This incident is one of the exceptions to the rule...that was one of the most bush league on-ice incidents I've ever seen. You DO NOT punch a player like that.

There are much better ways to give a cheap shot...many considerably better ways than the option he resorted to.

I love hockey, and I love the violence in hockey. I can admit that I've gone to most hockey games because I felt I was going to see someone get into a fight. (The old "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out" saw works well with me) Todd Bertuzzi gave me a rare reason to dislike violence in the sport...and it takes an awful lot for that to happen.

I just hope the NHL gives him a fair suspension...'though I think after the McSorley incident, it HAS to be one year. Of course this opinion has been swayed by online articles since I didn't vote for him to be suspended as long in an ESPN.com poll.

[rc3000]

I just read on ESPN that he has been suspended for the rest of the year plus playoffs.

[Crash Course]

And the team was fined $250 grand - of course, they will lose more, millions, in lost revenue if they do not progress thru the playoffs now with him out.

I was shocked this AM to hear some say that "maybe" Moore had some fault in this - - - that when TB barked out his name, tugged on him, and poked him with the stick, Moore should have turned around to fight him - - or braced himself for impact - - rather than ignore TB and end up getting hurt so bad.

But, maybe I should not be shocked - I'm the one that said, IIRC, that Piazza should have been expecting a brushback (after peppering Clemens for so long) and therefore could have avoided a beaning. Perhaps there is something to the claims made by some?

[Craig S.]

I just read on ESPN that he has been suspended for the rest of the year plus playoffs.

I'm glad to hear that they gave the proper punishment. I honestly can't imagine that Bertuzzi meant the injuries to be so severe, but he's responsible for them.

[Craig S.]

I was shocked this AM to hear some say that "maybe" Moore had some fault in this - - - that when TB barked out his name, tugged on him, and poked him with the stick, Moore should have turned around to fight him - - or braced himself for impact - - rather than ignore TB and end up getting hurt so bad.

Ridiculous - if that was the case, then Bertuzzi should have simply come at him from the front, not with a sucker punch from the back.

[SmedIndy]

It's horrible. Just horrible. I don't mind fisticuffs in hockey, however, there is a code to be followed and the worst thing you can do is be called a 'turtler' and flee a fight if you are called out. What Bertuzzi did was an outrage and I bet he's out for 10 games next season as well.

[mgoettsche]

The only baseball analogy to this I can think of is Roseboro/Marichal...

Totally uncalled for...I love the tough, enforcer mentality in hockey, but good god, be a man about it. Shoving a guys face into the ice from behind and then pummeling him is craven, and I lost a lot of respect for Bertuzzi...not to mention the guy could easily have died...just pathetic, and unfortunately a big stain on hockey's image.

Listening to ESPN today, the funny (tragic funny) thing is that absolutely NOTHING would have happened to Bertuzzi if Moore wasn't severely hurt. Kind of like Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl...if the networks had a delay on, none of the repurcussions (Howard Stern, etc) would have come about.

I have a feeling that hockey is going to start laying out severe guidelines for this behavior (kind of like basketball and leaving the bench...haven't seen a lot of big fights in a while there), and I don't expect we'll see a lot of these cowardly cheap shots in the future.

[Crash Course]

On the drive home tonight, I heard one caller say that the coach of Moore's team perhaps deserves some questioning - he had Moore on the ice when the game was a done deal already, knowing that Van. would be after him for revenge.

Amazing what some people think of..........

[LeGrandOrange]

The only baseball analogy to this I can think of is Roseboro/Marichal...

Totally uncalled for...I love the tough, enforcer mentality in hockey, but good god, be a man about it. Shoving a guys face into the ice from behind and then pummeling him is craven, and I lost a lot of respect for Bertuzzi...not to mention the guy could easily have died...just pathetic, and unfortunately a big stain on hockey's image.

Listening to ESPN today, the funny (tragic funny) thing is that absolutely NOTHING would have happened to Bertuzzi if Moore wasn't severely hurt. Kind of like Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl...if the networks had a delay on, none of the repurcussions (Howard Stern, etc) would have come about.

I have a feeling that hockey is going to start laying out severe guidelines for this behavior (kind of like basketball and leaving the bench...haven't seen a lot of big fights in a while there), and I don't expect we'll see a lot of these cowardly cheap shots in the future.

I don't understand the angle you're going for, mg. We had the same furor with the Marty McSorley incident. Brashear was not hurt near as badly as Steve Moore was. Marty's incident at least could look accidental if the stick is arced differently. And we were still up in arms over the thing. The angle was different, mind you, but the fact Brashear was not seriously injured did not prevent us from getting pissed off.

Also, I'm pretty certain the hit was illegal in the first place. If cold-cocking someone while they aren't looking was legal, some enforcer might've tried to take out a star player by using that tactic. You can't take something illegal and make it more illegal. In hockey, it just doesn't work that way. Plus, if Bertuzzi hits him differently, he's still in trouble. Fewer people that don't know sh-t about hockey would talk about it though. He still gets a long suspension regardless.

One more thing...how would a Justin Timberlake Delay (it's his fault for these FCC things, not Janet's) have anything to do to prevent this? Todd still injures him...all the bad stuff still happens. I don't understand what you're getting at with that particular point.

[LeGrandOrange]

On the drive home tonight, I heard one caller say that the coach of Moore's team perhaps deserves some questioning - he had Moore on the ice when the game was a done deal already, knowing that Van. would be after him for revenge.

Amazing what some people think of..........

Amazing that a caller like that actually thinks. :)

[KCBOOMER]

I've always felt that when something like this occurs that the aggressor must be suspended at least as long as the attacked person is out. When Kermit Washington destroyed Rudy Tomjanovich's face he only got a ten day suspension. In this case the NHL has done things fairly right and did well when they fined the team. Management and coaches can't control their players at all times but they have to be on notice that they must try.

[mgoettsche]

I don't understand the angle you're going for, mg. We had the same furor with the Marty McSorley incident. Brashear was not hurt near as badly as Steve Moore was. Marty's incident at least could look accidental if the stick is arced differently. And we were still up in arms over the thing. The angle was different, mind you, but the fact Brashear was not seriously injured did not prevent us from getting pissed off.

Also, I'm pretty certain the hit was illegal in the first place. If cold-cocking someone while they aren't looking was legal, some enforcer might've tried to take out a star player by using that tactic. You can't take something illegal and make it more illegal. In hockey, it just doesn't work that way. Plus, if Bertuzzi hits him differently, he's still in trouble. Fewer people that don't know sh-t about hockey would talk about it though. He still gets a long suspension regardless.

One more thing...how would a Justin Timberlake Delay (it's his fault for these FCC things, not Janet's) have anything to do to prevent this? Todd still injures him...all the bad stuff still happens. I don't understand what you're getting at with that particular point.


1) To my knowledge, McSorley was the only person punished...I'm not sure if the current retaliation ruling (player ejected for retaliating for an earlier incident in the same game) came after McSorley, but the fact is, it doesn't work. People talked openly about Moore being a marked man, and it was treated as no big deal...he was going to get pay back. Hey, happens in every sport, just most of the time people don't drive someone's head into the ground.

A $500K fine to the organization is no joke...you can bet owners, GMs, coaches, etc are going to start instructing their players on how NOT to pay someone back (something that I don't think has ever happened in hockey). And I can guarantee the league will start talking about extremely long suspensions, if not banishment, if similar incidents occur.

2) IMO, the McSorley incident isn't even in the same league as this, as I believe McSorley's didn't intend to smack Brashear in the head...just lost control of the angle of his stick. I think you agree, I think most hockey people agree, and I think the general public agreed...retaliation happens, McSorley got careless, punish him, end of story.

Bertuzzi drove Moore's head into the ice with how he directed his punch...hell, he could have punched him a number of different angles...Moore probably would have gone down, but definitely not in the same manner.

3) Of course the hit was illegal...but do you think it would have made SportsCenter and national news if Moore wasn't injured so badly? What if Moore just had the wind knocked out of him and got up? My bet is Bertuzzi would have been kicked out of the game (only if the refs saw the cheap shot) and would have gotten a token fine...I sincerely doubt he would have been suspended. His teammates would have pumped him up for taking care of business. It certainly wouldn't have created a media firestorm, and he certainly wouldn't be looking at criminal charges.

I've been to enough hockey games to know that this kind of stuff happens ALL the time...just most of the time people don't get severely hurt.

4) Just trying to make an analogy about consequences of actions with the Janet Jackson analogy. If CBS had a 5-second tape delay on (used to be standard procedure), the world wouldn't have seen Janet's boob, and there would be no story. Resulting from that action, we've seen several media conglomerates enact draconian measures to ensure that this doesn't happen again...Clear Channel would still love Howard Stern, the Emmy's/Grammy's wouldn't have been as low key, etc.

I think Bertuzzi's actions will have drastic consequences regarding how retaliation is conducted and punishments for extreme retaliation.