Durable and Above Average Hitters

[Wolf Hopper]

CAREER with PLATE APPEARANCES >= 10000 and
RUNS CREATED/GAME >= 2 vs. the league average

RUNS CREATED/GAME DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE PA RC/G
1 Babe Ruth 7.86 13.14 5.28 10616 7.86
2 Barry Bonds 5.38 10.27 4.89 10967 5.38
3 Ty Cobb 4.64 9.25 4.60 13073 4.64
4 Stan Musial 4.36 9.23 4.86 12712 4.36
5 Tris Speaker 3.90 8.59 4.69 11989 3.90
6 Mel Ott 3.82 8.86 5.03 11337 3.82
7 Honus Wagner 3.60 8.22 4.62 11738 3.60
8 Cap Anson 3.46 9.49 6.04 10119 3.46
9 Willie Mays 3.29 7.89 4.61 12492 3.29
10 Frank Robinson 3.12 7.56 4.44 11743 3.12
11 Nap Lajoie 3.09 7.69 4.60 10460 3.09
12 Hank Aaron 2.96 7.49 4.53 13940 2.96
13 Mike Schmidt 2.72 7.22 4.49 10062 2.72
14 Eddie Collins 2.54 7.19 4.64 12039 2.54
15 Eddie Mathews 2.44 7.15 4.71 10101 2.44
16 Paul Waner 2.40 7.51 5.10 10762 2.40
17 Wade Boggs 2.40 7.12 4.72 10740 2.40
18 Sam Crawford 2.35 6.65 4.29 10596 2.35
19 Joe Morgan 2.34 6.79 4.45 11329 2.34
20 Rafael Palmeiro 2.19 7.10 4.92 10973 2.19
21 Rickey Henderson 2.17 6.93 4.75 13346 2.17
22 George Brett 2.13 6.58 4.44 11624 2.13
23 Al Kaline 2.05 6.51 4.46 11597 2.05
24 Billy Williams 2.05 6.42 4.37 10519 2.05
25 Fred McGriff 2.01 6.90 4.89 10093 2.01
26 Tim Raines 2.01 6.66 4.65 10359 2.01
27 Charlie Gehringer 2.00 7.62 5.62 10237 2.00

Interesting list - - only 27 make it - - and shows that Tim Raines is so underrated..............

[Craig S.]

I would never have thought McGriff would make that list.

[KCBOOMER]

All HoFers except the active guys (Bonds, McGriff, and Palmeiro).

[Wolf Hopper]

All HoFers except the active guys (Bonds, McGriff, and Palmeiro).
Raines is inactive and not in the HOF.

[Wolf Hopper]

Another thing this list shows - Frank Robinson, while he gets respect, probably deserves more.

[Skip]

If you'd have said Williams was on this list, I sure would have figured you didn't mean Billy. (edit to say oops - didnt realize the Splinter fell a couple hundred PAs short of the cutoff). Makes me think 10000 is too high a cutoff. Even with military, he had a long enough career to make any longevity list, IMO.

And Babe has more than double everyone except the top 4 (3 excluding himself). Wowza. Again.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Another thing this list shows - Frank Robinson, while he gets respect, probably deserves more.

Just one of those guys, Frank Robinson. I've felt that way going way back, this guy is often overlooked. I put him only a couple of degrees under the big three that played in his time, Mantle, Mays and Aaron.

[Wolf Hopper]

If you'd have said Williams was on this list, I sure would have figured you didn't mean Billy. (edit to say oops - didnt realize the Splinter fell a couple hundred PAs short of the cutoff). Makes me think 10000 is too high a cutoff. Even with military, he had a long enough career to make any longevity list, IMO.

And Babe has more than double everyone except the top 4 (3 excluding himself). Wowza. Again.


CAREER with RUNS CREATED/GAME >= 2 vs. the league average
and PLATE APPEARANCES >= 9000

RUNS CREATED/GAME DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RC/G PA
1 Ted Williams 7.93 12.91 4.98 7.93 9789
2 Babe Ruth 7.86 13.14 5.28 7.86 10616
3 Lou Gehrig 5.59 11.21 5.63 5.59 9660
4 Barry Bonds 5.38 10.27 4.89 5.38 10967
5 Rogers Hornsby 5.05 9.92 4.87 5.05 9475
6 Mickey Mantle 4.78 9.35 4.57 4.78 9909
7 Jimmie Foxx 4.66 10.25 5.59 4.66 9670
8 Ty Cobb 4.64 9.25 4.60 4.64 13073
9 Stan Musial 4.36 9.23 4.86 4.36 12712
10 Tris Speaker 3.90 8.59 4.69 3.90 11989
11 Mel Ott 3.82 8.86 5.03 3.82 11337
12 Honus Wagner 3.60 8.22 4.62 3.60 11738
13 Cap Anson 3.46 9.49 6.04 3.46 10119
14 Willie Mays 3.29 7.89 4.61 3.29 12492
15 Jesse Burkett 3.28 9.04 5.77 3.28 9615
16 Frank Robinson 3.12 7.56 4.44 3.12 11743
17 Nap Lajoie 3.09 7.69 4.60 3.09 10460
18 Hank Aaron 2.96 7.49 4.53 2.96 13940
19 Mike Schmidt 2.72 7.22 4.49 2.72 10062
20 Eddie Collins 2.54 7.19 4.64 2.54 12039
21 Willie McCovey 2.53 6.97 4.44 2.53 9686
22 Willie Stargell 2.47 6.86 4.39 2.47 9026
23 Eddie Mathews 2.44 7.15 4.71 2.44 10101
24 Paul Waner 2.40 7.51 5.10 2.40 10762
25 Wade Boggs 2.40 7.12 4.72 2.40 10740
26 Sam Crawford 2.35 6.65 4.29 2.35 10596
27 Joe Morgan 2.34 6.79 4.45 2.34 11329
28 Harmon Killebrew 2.32 6.68 4.36 2.32 9831
29 Al Simmons 2.29 7.85 5.56 2.29 9517
30 Fred Clarke 2.21 7.39 5.18 2.21 9817
31 Rafael Palmeiro 2.19 7.10 4.92 2.19 10973
32 Rickey Henderson 2.17 6.93 4.75 2.17 13346
33 George Brett 2.13 6.58 4.44 2.13 11624
34 Al Kaline 2.05 6.51 4.46 2.05 11597
35 Billy Williams 2.05 6.42 4.37 2.05 10519
36 Fred McGriff 2.01 6.90 4.89 2.01 10093
37 Tim Raines 2.01 6.66 4.65 2.01 10359
38 Charlie Gehringer 2.00 7.62 5.62 2.00 10237

[Iron Horse]

Can anyone tell me why Bill James thinks Morgan is the number one 2nd baseman when Hornsby's rate is over double? If it was a little better with the differnce in at bats would be one thing but double.

[LeGrandOrange]

Because Joe Morgan was one of the best 5 tool players ever. Rogers Hornsby could just hit exceptionally well for his position. He was above average in doing other things but not quite like Little Joe.

[Skip]

CAREER with RUNS CREATED/GAME >= 2 vs. the league average
and PLATE APPEARANCES >= 9000
Thanks. Interesting how much the list changes by dropping only about 600 PA. Yes, I know you dropped 1000, but only 525 adds 5 to the top 7!

[gyb13]

and no real surprises in the additions

[Wolf Hopper]

Can anyone tell me why Bill James thinks Morgan is the number one 2nd baseman when Hornsby's rate is over double? If it was a little better with the differnce in at bats would be one thing but double. Hornsby was more like Jeff Kent with the glove than being a great fielding 2B. And, by many accounts, for whatever reason, he was incapable of catching a pop-up.

[Wolf Hopper]

and no real surprises in the additions

You see some if you drop the PA to 7000+

The list then grows to 66.

And,

Larry Walker is #19 all-time. :shockbig:

Dick Allen and Gary Sheffield crack the Top 35.

And, Reggie Smith is #60.

[nyy26wc]

You see some if you drop the PA to 7000+

The list then grows to 66.

And,

Larry Walker is #19 all-time. :shockbig:



Walker isn't such a big shock, thanks to Coors.

RC/G vs. the league average is almost the same thing as OWP. The smaller difference is subtracting, as opposed to dividing. But, the much bigger difference is RC/G vs. league doesn't consider parks and OWP does.

In terms of OWP, with the 7000 PA cutoff, Walker drops to #46. That's still really good. But, it's no 19.

[LeGrandOrange]

As far as I know, RC isn't park adjusted...I noticed this when I was comparing RC against the league average for position and RCAP. That's why the numbers are different...and thus that's why RC and RC/g numbers sway towards Rockies.

And, just out of curiosity, what's surprising about Reggie Smith being on the list? He was a REAL good player and gets terribly underrated.

[Iron Horse]

Talk about ballpark advantage. Has anyone ever looked at the home vs away stats for Walker and Helton. It is like night and day. It turns Helton from what I remember into just an ok player. I can't remember but something like a 40-50 points difference in AVG.

[nyy26wc]

Talk about ballpark advantage. Has anyone ever looked at the home vs away stats for Walker and Helton. It is like night and day. It turns Helton from what I remember into just an ok player. I can't remember but something like a 40-50 points difference in AVG.

Over the past 3 years, there is a 270 point difference in Helton's home and road OPS figures.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Coors Field, AKA Hitters Heaven. 5280 feet above sea level.

A ball fly ball that travels 400 feet at sea level will travel 420-430 at Coors.


A curve ball will break 25 percent less at Coors, than at sea level. We all know what a difference one or two inches means on where the bat makes contact with the ball.

Foul territory is a little below average. Less chance of popping out on foul balls.

Outfield area is one of the biggest in MLB. More area for balls to drop in.

The foul lines are fairly deep, 347 left and 350 right. Since fly balls travel farther at Coors that distance does not cut down on the home runs hit. However these long distances actually work out to the hitters advantage, in regards to base hits, singles. Because fly balls travel farther at Coors, outfielders must play deep, close to the 347-350 marks. This allows more balls to drop in front of the deep playing outfielders.

Hitters Heaven.

[gyb13]

:warn: let's keep this closer to the original question and list at hand, rather than on coors field, please

[Ytown Tribe fan]

and no real surprises in the additions

True -- it's basically the career OPS+ list, with a few rearrangements.

The only surprise (to me, at least) is that people still think of Barry, the Babe and Ted as the greatest hitters ever, and always leave Columbia Lou off that short list.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

:warn: let's keep this closer to the original question and list at hand, rather than on coors field, please

I hear ya. Sorry, this often happens on the boards. Some how we tend to branch out, get off the main theme.