From The Best To What Could Have Been

[Wolf Hopper]

I was just watching the replay of the Rose 4192 game on ESPN Classic.

Dave Parker was the next batter after Rose got the big hit. Looking at Dave, I thought, "Man, there was a time when he was THE BEST player in the game and a lock, most thought, to be one of the all-time greats."

Then, I thought, that happens more often than not, no?

Don Mattingly had that crown of "best in the game" and he did not make it to the finish line.

What players can you think of, who for a period of at least TWO seasons were considered "the best player in the game," that ended up with careers way short of being one of the all-time greats?

[GGC]

I was just watching the replay of the Rose 4192 game on ESPN Classic.

Dave Parker was the next batter after Rose got the big hit. Looking at Dave, I thought, "Man, there was a time when he was THE BEST player in the game and a lock, most thought, to be one of the all-time greats."

Then, I thought, that happens more often than not, no?

Don Mattingly had that crown of "best in the game" and he did not make it to the finish line.

What players can you think of, who for a period of at least TWO seasons were considered "the best player in the game," that ended up with careers way short of being one of the all-time greats?
I think that Jim Rice circa 1977-1979 comes close, but that's just my opinion.

[SmedIndy]

Fred Lynn comes to mind.

[sweaver]

Strawberry. Gooden too, if you include pitchers.

Going back a bit, Pete Reiser.

[TGwynn19]

Kevin Mitchell

[LeGrandOrange]

I have Starting Lineup figures of both of my answers, Eric Davis and Jose Canseco. I'm saying Jose's name again for a change.

Davis probably should've been among the best CF's ever. If he hadn't tailed off so quickly, he would've been on my HOF list. He's still one of my favorites but it really is a shame he didn't become better.

While in recent weeks I have had a very angry view towards Canseco, I can look at his career with the knowledge that while he was fairly good, he deserved to be MUCH better. I've thought about resuming HOF support for him even if he is a horse's ass, but he absolutely DESERVED to be one of the all-time greats. He should've been a legend. Ruined it for himself and that's a damn shame.

[Wolf Hopper]

In 1971-72, Bobby Murcer looked pretty good. He may qualify.

[Wolf Hopper]

Dare we say Ken Griffey Jr.?

[pwdennis]

Tommy Davis had a pair of seasons 62-63 (I think) where he looked like an immortal in the making. Then a badly broken ankle, and a career that never again hit the heights.

I also though that "Swingin', Singin' Tony C" looked to be a worldbeater until the beaning

[Wolf Hopper]

I was thinking about Tony C too.
Cesar Cedeno is another on my mind.

[sweaver]

Dare we say Ken Griffey Jr.?
It's hard for me to say the #6 all-time CF is a "could have been."

Of course, if you are saying he "could have been" #1, then there is some room. But most of the guys here fall far short of what Junior has accomplished.

Might as well say Frank Thomas, or Albert Belle.

[nyy26wc]

Dare we say Ken Griffey Jr.?

I won't. I've already written a column on how Bonds clearly dominated Griffey for the best player of the 1990s and I believe that Frank Thomas kicked his butt for the best player in the AL.

Very productive player, yes. Best player in baseball quality, no.

[rc3000]

I was thinking about Tony C too.
Cesar Cedeno is another on my mind.
Since the 70's were when I followed baseball the closest Cedeno and Parker were the first names that popped in my head. Parker you always figured it was the drugs, Tony C the beaning. But with Cedeno I just don't know what happened, I don't remember was there an injury ?

[TimmyB]

Rice, Lynn and Tony C. sprang quickly to mind. (Alas, they'd already been mentioned).

"Smokey Joe" Wood comes to mind, too. Bo Jackson, while not ever quite "greatest in the game" was still quite amazing to watch (flaws and all), but, like many before him, injury-ridden and out of the game.

Tony Oliva seems like a what-coulda-been, too.

[SmedIndy]

Since the 70's were when I followed baseball the closest Cedeno and Parker were the first names that popped in my head. Parker you always figured it was the drugs, Tony C the beaning. But with Cedeno I just don't know what happened, I don't remember was there an injury ?

There was the Astrodome, and then the legal issues in the Dominican. I think those two things derailed him.

[KCBOOMER]

Dael Murphy comes to mind. At age 31 seemed to be on an HoF track and then collapsed and was done by age 35.

Steve Busby and Don Gullett were both young pitchers having fabulous success. Both struck down by torn rotator cuffs. A death sentence in those days.

[Wolf Hopper]

Funny, Dale came to mind for me too. Any time a guy wins BTB MVPs, the expectations start to rise.........

[hmrsf]

First person that came to mind when I saw the title was Bo Jackson. I thought he was the best. Bo could field and Bo could hit. Imagine if he just stuck with baseball? What could have been!

[gyb13]

you can prob make a case for Juan Gone too

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Kenny Lofton, until he got injured and came back swinging for the fences like Willie Wilson.

But for his first several years, he was as good a centerfielder and leadoff man as you could find.

[Wolf Hopper]

Kenny Lofton was once considered the best player in the game?

[LeGrandOrange]

Well, you have to broaden your horizons, otherwise you will have no answers to this thread other than MVP candidates. :) I think Lofton was maybe the best rotisserie baseball player at one point though...

With all the Astro talk, someone has to mention J.R. Richard, and that someone is myself. Should've been one of the best African-American pitchers ever...and might well have been one of the best pitchers in the late '70's...oh, what should've been...

[sweaver]

Staying on an Astro bent, you could make a case for Dickie Thon.

[TGwynn19]

ok...I keep it going..what happend to Mike Scott???

[sweaver]

His spitter dried up?

[GGC]

Kenny Lofton was once considered the best player in the game?

FWIW, one of my brothers thought so.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Kenny Lofton was once considered the best player in the game?

Nope, and I never said that.

For a few years anyway, Lofton was the best leadoff-hitting centerfielder in the game. I stand by that statement.

[TimmyB]

Nope, and I never said that.

For a few years anyway, Lofton was the best leadoff-hitting centerfielder in the game. I stand by that statement.

I'll second that.

[pathogan]

In 1971-72, Bobby Murcer looked pretty good. He may qualify.
C'mon , hombre, this is a stretch,no?...Joe Rudi? Reggie Smith?Ralph Garr[well, sort of]Earl Williams...Bobby Tolan...Johnny Bench...Strawberry...Larry Dierker

[SmedIndy]

Pat - look Murcer's numbers in the early 70's as a CF, taking in effect the era he hit in. Bill James thought he was the best CF of the 70's

[nyy26wc]

Most RCAA, majors, 1971-72:

RCAA
1 Bobby Murcer 126
2 Willie Stargell 117
3 Dick Allen 109
4 Hank Aaron 103
5 Billy Williams 99
T6 Joe Torre 85
T6 Joe Morgan 85
T8 Pete Rose 73
T8 Roy White 73
10 Reggie Jackson 66

Murcer was a CF from 1970-73. Most RCAA, CF, during that period--

RCAA
1 Bobby Murcer 172
2 Amos Otis 99
3 Cesar Cedeno 95
4 Willie Mays 88
5 Reggie Smith 83
6 Reggie Jackson 66
7 Willie Davis 64
8 Rick Monday 52
9 Al Oliver 43
10 Dusty Baker 42

[Wolf Hopper]

Pat - look Murcer's numbers in the early 70's as a CF, taking in effect the era he hit in. Bill James thought he was the best CF of the 70's

In the history of the game, the whole history, guys have had consectutive seasons of 50+ RCAA (at least 2 seasons, min, some many more seasons in a row) maybe 140 times.

Murcer in 1971-1972 was one of them.

[nyy26wc]

In the history of the game, the whole history, guys have had consectutive seasons of 50+ RCAA (at least 2 seasons, min, some many more seasons in a row) maybe 140 times.

Good approximation.

The exact count is 143.