Most Overrated

[pwdennis]

Apparently ESPN recently ran a column discussing the most overrated athletes of all time. I did not see the column but did hear Mike & Mike in the Morning discussing it on the radio this morning. Apparently some of the names on the ESPN list included Joe Namath, Deion Sanders, O J Simpson and Phil Rizzuto.

Who are your choices ?

I'll start off the bidding with

Paul Hornung
Ozzie Smith (the modern day Luis Aparicio)
Don Drysdale
Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[SmedIndy]

PW - you're dead wrong about Ozzie - he was one glove man that earned his keep.

I think Kareem at UCLA and with the Bucks WAS the real deal. He controlled the game like no other. I think when he got older and went to LA he wasn't as good as the hype. But early, he was.

There was an idiot who said Dr. J. was over-rated because he won just one title. WRONG! Dr. J. won ABA titles as well, which was a league as legitimate (and maybe more so) than the NBA of that era.

Pete Rose was on the ESPN list, and he IS overrated because his singles weren't truly as important as other components of the Big Red Machine.

[sweaver]

Deion was overrated on the baseball field, but not in football. Namath was overrated the rest of his career after the Super Bowl win. Drysdale was overrated, as is Koufax, due to Chavez Ravine.

I don't see the other guys as overrated. Pete Rose was able to do many things on the baseball field, a broad range of skills. He was frequently overrated by neanderthal writers during his career, but no longer.

Most athletes are overrated if they do one thing particularly well, and become known for it, but do not have a broad base of skills. Like Mark McGwire for instance.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by sweaver
Deion was overrated on the baseball field, but not in football. Namath was overrated the rest of his career after the Super Bowl win. Drysdale was overrated, as is Koufax, due to Chavez Ravine.

I don't see the other guys as overrated. Pete Rose was able to do many things on the baseball field, a broad range of skills. He was frequently overrated by neanderthal writers during his career, but no longer.

Most athletes are overrated if they do one thing particularly well, and become known for it, but do not have a broad base of skills. Like Mark McGwire for instance.

I think casual fans overrate Rose and Nolan Ryan - like baseball was all about singles and K's.

[pathogan]

>>>I think Kareem was simply the greatest BB player of all time.If anything he is underrated.Namath was overhyped,not overrated[he rarely played with good Jests teams after the 60's] Ryan defintely, PR,I dont know 4K hits is 4K hits...Hornug yes,though different era,Deon certainly, Patrick Ewing certainly,Johnny Bench[i know I know, but his peak years was a s few as Koufax'},Reggie Jackson{one dimensional} Gordie Howe...

[pwdennis]

one of the apparent criterion for the "Mike & Mike" discussion was that the player had to be genuinely great (or near-great) but still overrated

[TGwynn19]

Scottie Pippen

[gyb13]

here's the link to the espn feature
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeoverrated.html

[Craig S.]

On the football field, Deion's appearance automatically negated the opponent's best receiver. He's the only cornerback in the past 25 years of whom quarterbacks were actually afraid. Calling him overrated because of his salary is asinine.

[Skip]

Originally posted by Craig S.
On the football field, Deion's appearance automatically negated the opponent's best receiver. He's the only cornerback in the past 25 years of whom quarterbacks were actually afraid. Calling him overrated because of his salary is asinine. Agreed. He just plain wasn't overrated in football. And he really wasn't overrated in baseball, just over-covered. I don't recall most mediots calling him a great baseball player or anything like that, in fact it was most often the contrary. The problem was that he was still (due to personality, the two-sport thing, quotability, etc.) covered as if he were big in baseball, even though the coverage kept saying (correctly) that he wasnt.

Jeeminy - even this year my AAA team is giving away Deion bobbleheads to season ticket holders. I'm sure it's due to excess inventory from back when he actually played here, but just the fact that they think he's interesting enough to make them a 'perk' rather than simply trash them and write them off cracks me (and Gyb, I think) up.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by Craig S.
On the football field, Deion's appearance automatically negated the opponent's best receiver. He's the only cornerback in the past 25 years of whom quarterbacks were actually afraid. Calling him overrated because of his salary is asinine.

I didint know this was about salary...Deon couldnt tackle me,Craig,that makes him overrated

[TGwynn19]

Originally posted by pathogan
I didint know this was about salary...Deon couldnt tackle me,Craig,that makes him overrated


And Anthony Munoz couldn't catch a pass. Deion was a cover corner and was the best that ever lived. His value was never about preventing the running game.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by TGwynn19
And Anthony Munoz couldn't catch a pass. Deion was a cover corner and was the best that ever lived. His value was never about preventing the running game.

guys, seriously, I mean this, i dont care enough to argue about this. your both probably correct,he was a great cover man...

[TGwynn19]

Originally posted by pathogan
guys, seriously, I mean this, i dont care enough to argue about this. your both probably correct,he was a great cover man...


ok..final stab at this.....a cornerback's main job is to prevent the pass. Anything else he does is a bonus. A runningbacks main job is to run the ball. Anything else he does is a bonus. Noone but NOONE discredits Jim Brown for not catching passes out of the backfield. Why hold Deion to a different standard?

[LeGrandOrange]

There are many reasons why but I'm not one to hold him to such. Prime Time (spoken in best possible Deion voice) was the ultimate cover man...teams avoided throwing at Deion for a reason. Okay, "ultimate" he probably wasn't but let's not argue about that. And even if he is overrated as a DB, he makes up for it as a return man. Many consider him one of the best ever.

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by Craig S.
On the football field, Deion's appearance automatically negated the opponent's best receiver. He's the only cornerback in the past 25 years of whom quarterbacks were actually afraid. Calling him overrated because of his salary is asinine.

But if the receiver did manage to catch the ball, Deion was very poor at making the tackle, and if a receiver caught the ball on someone else and crossed into Deion's area, Deion rarely made the play. I guess you would say that he was good at prevention, but terrible on damage control

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
PW - you're dead wrong about Ozzie - he was one glove man that earned his keep.

I think Kareem at UCLA and with the Bucks WAS the real deal. He controlled the game like no other. I think when he got older and went to LA he wasn't as good as the hype. But early, he was.



I didn't say that I would not have put Ozzie in Cooperstown. I would have, eventually. He was a great defensive player but overall he definitely was overrated

The rise of Kareem seemed to coincide with the NBA's total unwillingness to call travelling (especially on star players). Kareem traveled on every skyhook he took. Players and coaches complained about it early but to no avail.

I think that the NBA took the position that Kareem was a marketable star and didn't want to do anything to detract from his value. He was a great player but wouldn't be in my top four centers (Wilt, Shaq, Moses Malone and Bill Russell) any of whom, in their prime , would have eaten Kareem alive. Actually , when healthy, I think Bill Walton was better, too.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by pwdennis
I didn't say that I would not have put Ozzie in Cooperstown. I would have, eventually. He was a great defensive player but overall he definitely was overrated

The rise of Kareem seemed to coincide with the NBA's total unwillingness to call travelling (especially on star players). Kareem traveled on every skyhook he took. Players and coaches complained about it early but to no avail.

I think that the NBA took the position that Kareem was a marketable star and didn't want to do anything to detract from his value. He was a great player but wouldn't be in my top four centers (Wilt, Shaq, Moses Malone and Bill Russell) any of whom, in their prime , would have eaten Kareem alive. Actually , when healthy, I think Bill Walton was better, too.

...but I disagree with you completely. I think KAJ was the greatest BB player ever, and he did play against walton, wilt and Moses and none ate him alive.He also intelligent articulate

[LeGrandOrange]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bill Walton is overrated? It should be noted that I think he's a complete ass off the court, so my opinion is biased, but I just have a hard time believe him to be even a good NBA player. He has the worst MVP award ever awarded, and in his good seasons, he wasn't really that good. How he's in the Hall of Fame is beyond me...

[SmedIndy]

LGO - You don't remember him in College. He would have been THE man if not for this feet.

[LeGrandOrange]

Yes, I know he was a great college player, but there were a lot of great college players that absolutely sucked professionally. Bill Walton did not suck, but his career looks strikingly similar to that of Ralph Sampson. Both were outstanding college players, both were #1 picks, and both fizzled quickly. Walton was better, but I don't give a damn. I still think he's overrated, and I still think he's a prick. End of story. And he still doesn't deserve that MVP award.

Feel free to make your counter point. :)

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by pathogan
...but I disagree with you completely. I think KAJ was the greatest BB player ever, and he did play against walton, wilt and Moses and none ate him alive.He also intelligent articulate

You may be the first I've ever encountered who thinks KAJ was the greatest ever (my top 3 would be Oscar Robinson, Wilt , Michael Jordan).

Kareem was intelligent and articulate, an outstanding playmaker for a big man. He played against only a post-prime Wilt, I don't remember him playing against Russell (if he did it was at the end of Russell's career) and I vividly remember Moses Malone eating Kareem's lunch in the 1983 NBA finals out rebounding him to the tune of 72-30 in a four game Sixer's sweep of the Lakers.

Kareem was not a great rebounder, and he had the good fortune to spend most of career on good teams on which he wasn't necessarily the main star on the team.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by pwdennis
You may be the first I've ever encountered who thinks KAJ was the greatest ever (my top 3 would be Oscar Robinson, Wilt , Michael Jordan).

Kareem was intelligent and articulate, an outstanding playmaker for a big man. He played against only a post-prime Wilt, I don't remember him playing against Russell (if he did it was at the end of Russell's career) and I vividly remember Moses Malone eating Kareem's lunch in the 1983 NBA finals out rebounding him to the tune of 72-30 in a four game Sixer's sweep of the Lakers.

Kareem was not a great rebounder, and he had the good fortune to spend most of career on good teams on which he wasn't necessarily the main star on the team.

except for the fact that by 1983 KAJ was old[35-36]...He was elegant,beautiful to watch,hell they CHANGED the rules against him{remember the Alcindor rule in college?} He like Henry AAron to me.so good hes overlooked...

[rc3000]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange

Feel free to make your counter point. :)

I remember watching him during the championship year against the Sixers and being amazed at his skill, but to quote Bob Ryan, who has seen a lot of basketball :
"If they were going to play one game to decide the future of the world a healthy Bill Walton would be my center."

[pathogan]

Originally posted by rc3000
I remember watching him during the championship year against the Sixers and being amazed at his skill, but to quote Bob Ryan, who has seen a lot of basketball :
"If they were going to play one game to decide the future of the world a healthy Bill Walton would be my center."

I 'm not certain I would quote Bob Ryan on anything...walton may have been a great player.but he had one good year, two where he was too stoned to play, another where he was too heavy, and then he was too injured. I like him,alot,but its more of a coulda'been for me...

[gyb13]

guys, let's keep this discussion to overrated players....

if you wanna talk about the best centers, start a new thread, please