Jerry Casale -- what happened?

[TimmyB]

When I was in NYC a couple weeks ago on business I stumbled upon this Italian restaurant called "Pino's" on E 34th. One of my damned Yankee fan co-workers told me I should go check it out since it's owned by "this guy who used to pitch for the Red Sox."

So... I did.

Jerry Casale. He went 13-8 (179 IP) in his rookie season (1959) and then 2-9 (96 IP) in '60, 1-5 (54 IP) in '61 and 1-2 (36 IP) in '62.

Anyone know what had this guy go from a pretty decent prospect to palookaville to running a pretty decent restaurant?

[gyb13]

he joined devo :D

[gyb13]

here's an article on him:
http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-97/11-23-97/b03sp061.htm

he developed shoulder bursitis

[sweaver]

Another promising pitcher with a sore arm.

[TimmyB]

Nice find. Thanks!

(He played the tape while I was there, too.)

[nyy26wc]

How about the explanation being he wasn't good to begin with.

He had a negative RSAA in that rookie season. His peripheries weren't any good: 93/89 SO/BB rate, more than a walk per 9 inning worse than the league average and a HR rate worse than the league average. So, there were signs that his -3 RSAA could get worse pretty easily.

What he did have going for him in 1959? Run support. A pitcher with that ERA, in that park, in that year should have only gone 10-11 with an average run support.

[LeGrandOrange]

Figures a damn Yankee fan would harp about the value of a Red Sox pitcher...:rolleyes:

[gyb13]

the world isn't that black or white, lgo

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by gyb13
the world isn't that black or white, lgo

Yeah, now for Casale I gather it's mostly red and white. (Sauces, that is...) :D

[LeGrandOrange]

Originally posted by gyb13
the world isn't that black or white, lgo

Even if it's red, gold, and green, the fact is that Lee's "analysis" wasn't necessary here anyway and it was somewhat uncalled for, the fact it's a Yankee putting down a Red Sock doesn't help matters.

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
Even if it's red, gold, and green, the fact is that Lee's "analysis" wasn't necessary here anyway and it was somewhat uncalled for, the fact it's a Yankee putting down a Red Sock doesn't help matters.

And what is uncalled for about stating that a player only had a good season using bad statistical measures?

[sweaver]

His front stats were good, his peripherals were bad, which didn't bode well for his future. Nothing wrong with pointing out the truth, unless you are in politics.

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by sweaver
His front stats were good, his peripherals were bad, which didn't bode well for his future. Nothing wrong with pointing out the truth, unless you are in politics.

True enough. It's hard to say where he would have gone without the injury... but the deeper stats don't look good.

And, I don't take offense at someone pointing it out. (Even if that someone bleeds Yankee blue...) ;)

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by TimmyB
True enough. It's hard to say where he would have gone without the injury... but the deeper stats don't look good.

And, I don't take offense at someone pointing it out. (Even if that someone bleeds Yankee blue...) ;)

And I'd like to add that I wasn't paying any attention to the fact that Casale pitched for the Redsox.

My sole purpose in writing was not to demean a Redsox pitcher, but rather to point how bad categories = bad judgments on player quality.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by gyb13
he joined devo :D

G,man, you killme:loud: :loud: :loud: :loud: :loud:

[Firpo Marberry]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
Even if it's red, gold, and green, the fact is that Lee's "analysis" wasn't necessary here anyway and it was somewhat uncalled for, the fact it's a Yankee putting down a Red Sock doesn't help matters.

Analysis in baseball is almost always necessary, as the game revolves around statistics. Without them, we would have no idea if Babe Ruth was a better player than Jim Pankovits. We'd just know he was more grainy, and virtually always black and white.

[LeGrandOrange]

I might recommend closing this thread because as I've often done I've annoyed people here...

[sweaver]

I think we'd have SOME idea the Babe was better than Pankovits. Just as we have some idea which offensive lineman are the best in football. But it's much nicer to be able to quantify it.

And with that, I think we are sufficiently off topic, so I'll close this one.