[John Hudgins] 350 Pitches in 10 Days???

[cubfan33]

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/s/2003/0622/1571516.html

The pitch counts are INSANE. While I understand that winning the CWS is important and noble, this kid - a pretty high pick of the Rangers - has to be just ragged. If I'm Grady Fuson, I'm worried and considering whether or not I want to sign this kid and at how much reduced an amount.

Where's the impotent NCAA when you need them?

[SmedIndy]

Ah, just stand in the shower with icee-hot...you'll be fine!

[sweaver]

Colleges are rather notorious for this...ride that pitching horse as far as he can go. Fortunately, there are usually a couple of hitters in each lineup you don't have to take real seriously, and can let up, but the aluminum bat does tend to make everyone a bit dangerous.

[Firpo Marberry]

As long as colleges insist on aluminum bats, the game is such a joke that why bother following it? It's like making college football players use a rugby ball, or college basketball players use a hoop 9 feet, 6 inches above the ground.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

The colege coach has ONE job -- to win ballgames. If that means putting his biggest horse out there every day until his arm falls off to win the CWS, then that's what it means.

BTW -- most of the big-time college pitchers are there for one reason, and one reason ONLY -- to improve their signing bonus when they DO get drafted.

I'm betting that the "poor" pitcher who was so "abused" was drafted our of high school but went to college JUST to get a bigger bonus in 3 or 4 years.

He should've gone to the minors right out of school -- maybe he'd get a smaller bonus but maybe his arm would be better handled in the minors.

It reminds me of the recruits in "An Officer and a Gentleman", when Sgt Foley says, "I KNOW why most of you are here. But before you get to fly for TWA, you gotta give Uncle Sam SIX YEARS of your life. A lot of things can happen in six years!"

Can't feel AT ALL sorry for any overused college player.

[Wolf Hopper]

What makes this worse is that a lot of the innings that the kid through were stressful (guys on, etc.).

I wonder, did the kids father have anything to say here?

[gyb13]

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
I'm betting that the "poor" pitcher who was so "abused" was drafted our of high school but went to college JUST to get a bigger bonus in 3 or 4 years. some people want an education, y'know

[flashyfish]

Firpo said: It's like making college basketball players use a hoop 9 feet, 6 inches above the ground.


Or making the three point line 19'9"!

[poorme]

the kid's old enough to make his own decisions. it's his call.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
BTW -- most of the big-time college pitchers are there for one reason, and one reason ONLY -- to improve their signing bonus when they DO get drafted.



Funny - the two teams in the CWS finals - Rice and Stanford, SCREAM academic integrity first and foremost. I'd have to disagree with that. You go to Rice or Stanford, you're bright (they don't bend the rules) and you want to study.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Does anyone know the draft history of the pitcher in question? Was he drafted out of high school? If so, what kind of bonus was he offered? Did he decide to go to college intending to graduate and put his degree to good use outside of baseball? Did he go to college intending to play baseball and improve his draft status and/or signing bonus?

All generalities aside, the pitcher made a decision to pitch for a college team and he is stuck with it whether he plays pro ball or not. If he doesn't play pro ball, then the "overuse" isn't going to affect him anyway, is it? And if he does intend to play pro ball, then you have your answer to many of those questions.

[cubfan33]

Hudgins was drafted in the 20th round of the 2000 draft by the ... hehehe ... Oakland Athletics.

I don't see anyone on the page with him that's made it, but there could be many in the minors.

http://www.sports-wired.com/draft/draft.asp?Y=2000&N=4

[Ytown Tribe fan]

So the guy was drafted in the 20th round three years ago and went to Stanford to pitch.

This year, the Rangers took him in the 3rd round.

Pretty hard to feel sorry for him. The guy knew exactly what he was doing.

The coach asked him if he would be ready and willing and he said okay. The coach asked him AGAIN on game day, and he said, "No prob -- besides I rely on control and not heat."

What's the coach gonna do -- tell his teammates that he's NOT putting his best pitcher in the CWS to save his arm for the Rangers? Please!

[SmedIndy]

YT - How can you claim he went to Stanford PURELY for increasing his draft ranking? That's a broad generalization and it totally not cricket. He could have gone to Miami or CS - Fullerton. No. He went to STANFORD, which means he had to have some brains in his noggin.

You claim that they're all about draft status - yet many college baseball players never have been drafted (even at "elite" programs) and many go to play baseball and go to school, especially since they don't have a full allotment of scholarships to go around.

I can't, for the life of me, think of someone who goes to say Indiana or Ball State to play college baseball thinking about the draft.

I feel sorry for anyone who has been injured in athletics. Most athletes WANT to play - hell, I tweaked a hamstring the other week and I'm still playing hoops twice a week anyway.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

I'm saying the coach did what was best for the TEAM, not for the Texas Rangers.

I'm saying the kid was drafted out of HS in the 20th round and is now drafted in the 3rd round BECAUSE he pitched big-time college baseball. That's a pretty big difference in signing bucks.

I'm saying the coach ASKED the kid if he could go if needed in the biggest game his team will likely ever play and he said okay.

That's about it. It was newsworthy because it was an extreme example, even by college standards. I'm sure the kid was thinking more about what was best for the team than what was best for John Hart.

My wife and I run 5Ks every other weekend for the t-shirts. World records are not in any danger of being broken, but our personal records get broken every other month. If we overdo it on race day, we have a week of training to get over it. If I had a signing bonus for every time I overdid it on race day, I'd be rich. But you know what? Every time I overdo it on race day, I set a personal record and I"m only getting faster. It must not be doing me any harm.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
I'm saying the kid was drafted out of HS in the 20th round and is now drafted in the 3rd round BECAUSE he pitched big-time college baseball. That's a pretty big difference in signing bucks.



It seemed like you were indicting him for going to college baseball JUST to increase his signing bonus. Many draftees go to college baseball and don't get redrafted. He did, because he improved, and got a great education to boot.

Also, he may have been a 20th round pick because everyone KNEW he was going to college. Don't disparage him for that.

And besides, why WOULDN'T he give all for his current team? If he didn't try to do everything he could to have Stanford win the CWS, then why would the Rangers want him on their team?

[kilfara]

To address the original point, "350 pitches in 10 days???", that works out to three starts of 117 pitches, each on four days' rest. I'm as big a fan of pitch counts as the next guy, but those totals, while a little on the high side, hardly seem excessive to me. (I know that splits of 135-131-84 are likely to be more damaging to a college arm than 117-117-116; my point was to say that 350 pitches isn't all THAT much, especially when you start looking at some of Boyd Nation's reports detailing regular 140- and 150-pitch starts by college pitchers. Ytown Tribe Fan, reports about Hudgins are most definitely NOT extreme, by the standards of college pitching.)

On a separate subject: you guys seem to think that young, teenaged pitchers know "exactly what they're doing". How many sabermetrically-inclined major league pitchers are there, never mind college pitchers??? Maybe in a generation's time, when sabermetrics have become mainstream and "Moneyball" is a holy tome, parents will know not to send their kids to college programs with a history of abusing live arms, and kids will know enough to not want to play for such coaches in the first place. At the moment, though, the culture isn't like that - pitchers who really ought to know better keep saying, "Give me the ball, skip," even when it hurts. And if their manager asks them to pitch, you're starting to get into a situation like "A Few Good Men" - how much personal discretion does a pitcher, especially a young tyke of a college pitcher, really have to decide whether or not he's hurt or even fatigued enough not to pitch?

The point is, you would think that if ANYBODY would be looking out for the long-term health of a college pitcher, it would be the college pitcher. But it doesn't work that way. Yet. (Someday?...)

Cheers,
Darren