05-16-2003, 03:04 AM
I'm not sure which forum to post this on, so I'll just post it here and if it's moved, so be it.
On May 12, Ricky Stone pitched against the Pirates and earned both a Win and a Hold. My question is: How is this possible? Looking at the box, I can see where the win came from. But why was he awarded a "Hold" as well?
The few that I've asked think it was a mistake. I'd appreciate any responses. Thanks.
05-16-2003, 06:06 AM
From - http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2000/0523/546788.html
The hold was invented in 1986 by John Dewan and Mike O'Donnell, who worked together on The Chicago Baseball Report. Here's their definition, as it appears in the STATS Baseball Scoreboard: 1996...
A Hold is credited any time a relief pitcher enters a game in a Save Situation, records at least one out, and leaves the game never having relinquished the lead.
In other words, you have to enter a game in a save situation, get somebody out, and exit the game with the same save situation intact. John Dewan is now the big cheese at STATS, Inc., where they continue to tabulate holds based on that definition. Holds were first exposed to a wide audience a few years ago, when USA Today, through box scores supplied by STATS, listed them on a daily basis.
However, in 1994 STATS lost the USA Today account to SportsTicker, and the latter parties decided to come up with their own version of the hold. The new definition was different in two respects. One, a pitcher does not have to retire a batter to get a hold. All he has to do is leave with the save situation intact, whether he gets anyone out or not. There's another difference. You know how a pitcher can get a save no matter what the score, as long as he pitches three or more innings? According to STATS, that save situation can lead to a hold opportunity as well, but SportsTicker doesn't credit holds in those big-lead situations.
In the game in question, Stone came in the 6th, one out, with the bases loaded, and the 'Stros up 3-1. He gave up a sac fly and a groundout to get out of the inning. Astros up 3-2. That's where he got the HOLD.
As far as the win, well, the SP did not go 5 - so, if I recall right, it's up to the scorer to give the win to the pitcher he thought was most effective in the game - - and, he must have thought it was Stone - - and not Robertson or the others.
Here's the box score for those who want to see it - http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=230512123
05-16-2003, 11:06 AM
Seems silly to award both to the same pitcher...sort of like getting a win and a save. That should be changed in the rule book.
05-21-2003, 02:34 PM
now couple this with BJ Ryan's 'win' a few wks back in which he didn't even throw a pitch....
let's just do away with wins, holds, and saves altogether
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