Managing To The Stat?

[SmedIndy]

In last night's Rockies / Braves doubledip:

The first game the Rocks made a comeback when Grybowski couldn't find the plate, Cox then tried King and Hernandez and they were lifted after one batter, so Smoltz came in the eight, shut 'em down, and breezed to a save in the ninth when the Rocks pen couldn't hold the Braves.

In the SECOND game, the Rocks were threatining late. Cox put in King who couldn't get his batter out, but Hernandez got his man and the eighth ended.

The pitchers spot did not come up in the ninth.
It was a three run lead.
Smoltz had already pitched that day.
Hernandez faced one batter in the second game.

WHY PUT SMOLTZ BACK IN? For the 'save'? Why couldn't Hernandez get that save and let Smoltz rest the second game? Was it just because of the three run lead?

Why? Why? Why?

[rcartman28]

Cox's reasoning after the game was that "he didn't throw too many pitches in that first game, so tomorrow, we'll see".

He threw 12 pitches in the first game and 18 in the second.

[SmedIndy]

30 pitches is a lot for a short man, though....

[Craig S.]

Smed, I think some of it's just the manager's mentality that a 3-run lead means you put in your closer. I hate this kind of thinking, especially in a situation like that last night.

On the plus side, 30 pitches might seem like a lot, but I think Smoltz has some pretty good durability.

[poorme]

manager's don't care at all about the stat. what they care about is winning today's game. they're not really good at seeing the "big picture," and i don't really blame them. after all, in the long-run, we are all dead.

[Skip]

Originally posted by poorme
after all, in the long-run, we are all dead. pooryou. ;)

[KCBOOMER]

I think there is a lot of "Gene Kline" in relievers today. They are afraid to pitch in the ninth if it's a "save" situation. This lack of confidence has further emphasized the perceived need for closers.

[sweaver]

Has the "closer" shine worn off Hernandez so quickly? If it's me, I let him pitch the 9th of the 2nd game. Cox probably goes to Smoltz because of role definition, and because that is the guy he depends on.

It's a conditioned response now for managers. Positively Pavlovian.

[samclyatt]

For what it is worth, Steve Stone is, as always, vocal on this subject. "When you are paying millions for one guy to "save" the game, then you let him do it."

That is the reason you'll always see Smoltz.

Plus, knowing Smoltz, one wouldn't want to be within 100 miles of Atlanta if someone else got the save, and Smoltz had not been given the opportunity--unless he was obviously extended or hurting.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by samclyatt
For what it is worth, Steve Stone is, as always, vocal on this subject. "When you are paying millions for one guy to "save" the game, then you let him do it."


B-O-G-U-S....I pay him millions of dollars to help my team win, shut down rallies, pitch in ties.

[Craig S.]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
B-O-G-U-S....I pay him millions of dollars to help my team win, shut down rallies, pitch in ties.

Agreed - the minute you start managing your team around the salaries they make, you take the impetus off winning.

[samclyatt]

I couldn't agree more.

I also see the same mistakes being made with regard to these guys like Kenny Lofton et al ( and I'm not just trying to pick on him), but surely these teams could make better use of younger guys and older guys who have had very little chance to play for an extended time.

I read in Baseball Prospectus about Colorado haveing several hot-hitting prospects in their organization who are stymied behind Todd Helton at 1B.

That is where the Blue Jays (oops, excuse me--the Jays) found Hinske. Surely there are others. I think fans would appreciate watching guys like that as much as they do some of these other guys (like a certain second baseman I know in Chicago).

Another case in point--Borowski vs. El Pulpo . How long that will last is known only to Dusty.

[sweaver]

Not Lofton (or for that matter, Sanders) so much this year with the Pirates. There really wasn't anybody in the system ready to move in and play CF, and Sanders is better than anything they had.

[SmedIndy]

Can we careen back to the topic of managers managing to a stat...in this case saves.

Are there other examples?

[samclyatt]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Can we careen back to the topic of managers managing to a stat...in this case saves.

Are there other examples?

Smed, we can "careen back to the topic" any time you want.

Obviously, you can set the parameters you want since you can start a thread on any topic you want, then you "manage" the discussions in the way you want.

It looked to me as if your original question had been answered pretty well.

Sopalt probably had the right idea. You top posters are in your own little worlds here. Enjoy yourselves.

[sweaver]

You can also start threads. A thread about playing veterans vs. rookies/young players would no doubt find some posts.

[SmedIndy]

Please, there was no offense meant here at all. The idea of managing to a salary is also a valid topic, and probably needs another thread.

Check out the forum rules. We try to stay on topic on a thread, and create other threads if a discussion flows from a topic.

http://www.netshrine.com/ndfcs.html