It was once said that every boy builds a shrine to some baseball hero, and before that shrine, a candle always burns.  
                Welcome to this virtual celebration of baseball where many candles glow in honor of big league heroes. 

NetShrine Mailbag

We here at NetShrine receive some very interesting e-mail.   Many visitors have questions.  Others offer astute recommendations (which are always welcome and appreciated).  In fact, since much of the e-mail is worthy of sharing, we have decided to publish "The Best of the NetShrine Mailbag." 

Which topic would you like to read?

Negro League Homers Met Pioneers Looking For Piersall
Recommending Slim Sallee Pitchers Who Slam Defunct Bush Leagues
Perfect Games Feedback on the Best Switchers Superb Ballot Feedback
Researching A Book Roster Histories More Superb Ballot Feedback
The Yankee Clipper Best RBI Seasons Pitchers - Career Hit Batters Leaders
Recommending Ryne Duren Cy Young Felons Donnie Baseball
Needs Baseball Phrases Three Decades Of Bucs Another Idea On Realignment
Telling the Grandkids about '48 Italian Five Of Forty Recommending Kevin Mitchell, etc.
Looking For Free Agents E-mail To G.M. Serving Both Big Ones
Ballplayers From Nebraska Missing Padres An Old Bat Or What?
Pete Rose Scandal First All-Star MVP Stranger To The Basepaths
1800's Baseball Artifacts Last Man In Philly Cally League Info
Player Salaries Old Uniforms Negro League Numbers
Recommending Tigers Recommending Johnny Sain Who's Who In 1927
Seeking Old Braves' Info Recommending Wally Berger Where Are They Now?
Winning Gold Gloves How The Series Was Named Who's With Ernie?
Pitchers Who Hit Black Players In Boston Seeking Jeff Cox
Stolen Base Leaders Seeking Dewey Dope Quick Samuel Question
List Of Champions Survey Says! [BING] Questions About The Reds
Cy Young Story Cairo Summer of '49 Tony O, You're So Fine
'62 Series - Game 4 Recommending "Stuffy" McInnis Tiger Boxscores Wanted
Looking For Old Boxscores "Cousin" Combinations The Appeal Play
Don Gutteridge Alotta Ona Vada Pinson Oldest To Safety

I am trying to verify that there was a member of the Negro Leagues who hit 75 home runs.  Any information would be appreciated.

NetShrine:  Tough to tell - esp. since many of the games were exhibition types. You may want to check some of the following Websites for more information. Apologies for those recommended which are no longer up.

Negroleaguebaseball.com  http://negroleaguebaseball.com/
Negro Baseball League Links   http://webusers.anet-stl.com/%7Ecivil/negroleaguebaseballlinks.html
Negro Leagues Baseball Online Archives    http://webcrawler.com/select/african.32.html
Negro Leagues Baseball Online Archives  http://www.nc5.infi.net/%7Emoxie/nlb/nlb.html
Negro Leagues Baseball Shop  http://www.the-coop.com/negroleagues/index.html
NegroLeague Home   http://marin.k12.ca.us/~parkweb/NegroLeaguesHome.html
NegroLeague Home Page  http://pages.prodigy.com/FL/khya34d/tkpublish.html
NegroLeagues Baseball Online Archives  http://www.infi.net/~moxie/nlb/nlb.html
NEGROLEAGUES COLLECTOR'S SITE  http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/spaige/
NegroLeagues History  http://users.aol.com/skshivers/negrohistory.html
NegroLeagues Players Gallery    http://www.infi.net/~moxie/nlb/players/players.html


Greetings!  I must say that your site is an excellent concept.  I also understand that you probably hear from lots of folks who believe you are not including a worthy player.  Taking the chance of being ignored by you, I will suggest that Harry Franklin "Slim" Sallee should be included in one of your "significant" player areas within the Dead Ball Era.   If you have never heard of him, you are not alone.  That problem will be rectified in short order.  If you need documentation of Slim Sallee's status in major league history, let me know.  I have plenty of "stuff" to pass on that is indisputable.  I'm not suggesting Slim should be in the Hall of Fame; that would be foolish.  However, he is more worthy from a performance standpoint than some who are.   These "some who are" had the fortune of playing most of their careers with outstanding teams in large cities, generally New York or Chicago, consequently they are well remembered when it comes time for HOF voting.  As Bill James will tell you, this political process which has permeated the HOF induction procedure has made quite a few selections a farce.  The HOF should only be for those select few, the Wagners, Ruths, Johnsons, etc., not the Marquards, Rixeys, Youngs', Kellys, etc.  Anyway, I really like your site.  I wish you well with its continuance.

NetShrine:  Thanks for visiting NetShrine! I hope you'll visit the site often.  Thanks also for the recommendation regarding Slim Sallee. I'll add him to the current list of those under consideration. 


I like your site - I love the game and looking back on its history.  I'm trying to find a baseball site where I might be able to ask some questions on-line and get some answers back - i.e.:  This week's questions is to name the 14 pitchers to throw perfect games.  Any suggestions on where I might find this kind of data?

NetShrine:  I don't know of any sites that provide answers upon request. Sorry. Thanks for the kind words about NetShrine - glad you enjoyed it and hope you visit it often. The following Web Page may help you with the perfect game research:

http://www.infoplease.lycos.com/ipsa/A0112404.html    Thanks again for the feedback on the site.


I am writing a book and would like to know if you have information on any of the following players.  I have all birth, death, stats and the likes.  Just wanted to know what you might have.   Thanks

Tom Cahill played 1891  Art Butler 1911-1916  Tony Cusick 1884  Fred Tenney 1884  Ed O'Neil 1890  Dick Siebert 1932, 1936-1945  Joe "Amby" Ambrose 1936  Butch Sutcliffe 1938  John Reder 1932  Red Torphy 1920   Luke Urban 1927-1928  Benny Bowcock 1903  Tom Drohan 1913  Frank Fennelly 1884-1890  Tom Gastall (Died in plane crash) 1955-1956  Russ Gibson 1967-1972  Tom Gunning 1884 - 1889  Joe Harrington 1895-1896  Chris McFarland 1884  Jim Manning 1884-1889 

NetShrine:  I probably have the same information which you already have - I assume what you're looking for are anecdotes and the like. For those post-1930's players, you may be able to dig up something from a newspaper archive available at the Public Library. The tough nut would be the players from before the turn of the century. It's a long shot - and a lot of work which may be high risk in that it yields nothing - but, you may want to look at each of the oldies separately, identify where they played - and then see if that city (or town) has some sort of historical center or society. They may have some old news clips from the late 1800's-early 1900's. Sorry I'm not much help with this - thanks for stopping by the site. Good luck with the book!


While toasting the memory of the great Joe DiMaggio last evening, some friends and I got stuck on this question: Where did the title "Yankee Clipper" originate?  Who gave Joe that tag?  And why?  My best guess was... someone associated the grace and style of DiMaggio's play with the old Clipper sailing ships?  Would still love to know the whole story.  If you can supply the answer it would be greatly appreciated.  Can't find the info in any of my sources!

NetShrine:  Go to:       http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Aficionado/people/fl696.html|0703063807474390353860269485

(copy the above URL exactly into your browser and give it some time.)  Mel Allen gave him the name because of the way he patrolled CF - like the (boat) Yankee Clipper.


Ryne Duren striking out 8 White Sox in a row at old Comiskey park was a record that held up for quite some time, yet there is very little attention paid to this remarkable feat.  Let's give him some recognition for his exploits on the field.  Get some info from Yogi or John Blanchard about Ryne and Elston Howard can tell you some things about Ryne.  I'm his number one fan.   Incidentally Ryne Sandberg was named after Ryne Duren.  If you need more info, I have a scrap book full of Ryne's exploits both on and off the field.

NetShrine:  Thanks for your note! Duren deserves, and will receive, consideration for the NetShrine Icons of an Era wing.


I'm looking for commonly used lines or phrases that a fanatic fan might use at a baseball game, ex: "helen keller could've made that call!" "batta, batta, swiiing!"  Is there such a compilation available?

  I don't know of any sources on-line. (It's a great idea for a site! Since I could not find any.)  Paul Dickson's Baseball Dictionary and Baseball Quotes could be good sources. They're both very good. You can get them at amazon.com. Good luck!


My 6 years old grandson in Little League has been assigned to the Phillies and he would like to know about them. Believe it or not, he asked his grandfather about the history and what Grandpa remembers.   Well, I have searched all and can not find a link that you can get the history of any team nor the past player according to teams and years.  My other grandson who is on the Yankees.  Well my husband has no problems because he followed the Yankees at the time.  They want to know who played when Grandpa was young.  Kids love stories especially old ones that Grandpa tells.  Which of course are much grander then they really were.  I would appreciate just telling me a site or link that I could get the history and old players of baseball teams from 1948 on.  I will go on from there, I hope. The boys sit in his lap, (and there are 5 of them all the same age approx.) listening to Grandpas tell of the great players of his time.  But I can't find any info on the web no matter how I word it.  Thanks for your help.

NetShrine:   Thanks for stopping by NetShrine (www.netshrine.com). I truly enjoyed your note.  Two URLs that I can recommend for you to copy and paste into your browser (exactly as below) are:


the second one above will bring you to a baseball event calendar that you can move forward for as many years as you like. Hope this helps in some way.


Thanks so much for your information on the net.  It helps.  Being in a fantasy baseball league that includes a minor league and NL taxi squad of 17 players, it is helpful to know who the free agents in the NL will be next year.  In this case 2000.  That way I can draft a player or two from that list in hopes they come to the AL.  If that takes place, I have that player I want for $20 in our auction league then his price goes up to $30 the following year.  It is a pleasant surprise when you get a chance to get that player.   Makes you look into teams in NL to see if they are going to keep that free agent or not.  So the help I need from you is were do I get a list of 2000 free agents?   I have been searching the net for three weeks and nothing.  Tell me if you have an idea please.

NetShrine:  Doubt you'll find that anywhere on the 'net - as things can change at any time (i.e., Fassero can be a FA next year. The M's could trade him in July and then he signs long term right after the trade). Best recommendation? Keep notes - over the winter, any time you read "could be a FA in whatever-year" make a note in your log.


Do you have a way that I can list all of the past and current players that have made the major leagues that have come from Nebraska?

NetShrine:  You may want to search the 'net with a focus on Nebraska and look for famous natives - it's probably a narrower search than starting with "baseball." Also, I recall either (or perhaps both) Baseball America and USA Today Baseball Weekly doing stories on player's origins by place of birth. You may want to check their archives. Other than that, it would mean going through the Baseball Encyclopedia - player by player - and looking at their birthplace. It's a project that will require some legwork. Good luck.


Hi, I'm looking for information on the Pete Rose scandal or any other current baseball scandal.  I need to write a lengthy paper on scandal in baseball.  Can you help me with some sources and where I can look for them?  Thank you.

NetShrine:  Go to any of the big search engines, like www.yahoo.com, www.excite.com, etc., and in the search criteria, type in these 3 words:  Rose Giamatti Dowd
or just try
Rose Giamatti

You'll find tons of stuff on the 'Net. Good luck with the paper.


I'm not sure if you would be interested in this but I thought maybe you could shed some light on it anyway.  I have recently acquired a box containing all sorts of papers from the 1830's through the 1890's.  Within these papers were baseball schedules/book, 1890 Morse's Baseball Book, 1893 "The Press, NY National League Schedule", and "1893 Gutta Percha Baseball Score Card/Schedule".

Now here's the interesting part... not only were the items above in the box but there are multiple letters (20-30) which were correspondences between local and semi-professional teams from NJ and NY.  In addition, there are billheads/receipts for the purchase of uniforms and equipment, and for the maintenance and securement of the playing fields.   Also there are sheets with, I guess the local players names and the bi-laws of the team.   The purpose of this letter is to really determine what it is I have.

NetShrine:  Sounds like you have some cool stuff! As far as "exactly what do you have?" I'm not sure. I would recommend contacting the following:

Appraisers Association of America
386 Park Avenue South - Suite 2000
New York, NY 10016
(212) 889-5404

Sports Collectors Digest
700 East State Street
Iola, WI 54990
(715) 445-2214

They're also recommended by the baseball Hall of Fame. Perhaps they could shed some more light on it? Good luck!


I need to find average player salaries from 1900-1970, including rookies. Also, if you know of a place where I can find ticket prices during the same time span, that would be helpful.

NetShrine:  I'm more than sure that player salaries, say from 1900 to about 1950 (or so) - for the most part - were never made public. So, that will limit what you can get.  Ticket prices may be just as difficult. I assume that you're working on some sort of article or paper.  Perhaps the Major League Baseball Players Association (http://www.bigleaguers.com) can help with the salary information? Or, maybe they can give you a better lead?  For the ticket prices, perhaps Cooperstown may have something in their library? They can be reached at http://www.baseballhalloffame.org  -  Good luck!


Here are a couple of candidates who I feel should be honored:  Johnny Bassler (Detroit Tigers 1921-27, Cleveland Indians 1913-14), - consistent hitter, career batting average of .304 as a 7 year regular catcher for the Tigers.  Dale Alexander (Detroit Tigers 1929-32, Boston Red Sox 1932-33), - combined power with average to form one of the greatest ever rookie seasons in 1929 for the Tigers: .343 with 25 home runs.  He smacked 215 hits including 15 triples.  Alexander also won the 1932 batting crown.  His career was too short, though, only 5 years.  However, he should be in the shrine. He had a career .331 batting average and .497 slugging average.  Billy Rogell (Boston Red Sox 1925 & 1927-28, Detroit Tigers 1930-39, Chicago Cubs 1940) - He was a scrappy shortstop in the Tigers' glory days.  He teamed up in the 430 RBI infield with Gehringer, Greenberg, and Marv Owen (of the Joe Medwick incident in the 34 Series).   I also think that Lu Blue, Rudy York, Tommy Bridges, Schoolboy Rowe, George Uhle, Dizzy Trout, and Virgil Trucks should be in.  Thanks!  Keep up the great work!

NetShrine:  Thanks for visiting NetShrine! I hope you'll visit the site often.  Thanks also for the recommendations. They're all excellent. I'll add them to the current list of those under consideration.


I'm trying to find information on all of the Milwaukee Braves games - dates, scores, lineups, etc. Can you point me in the right direction?

NetShrine:  Not much on the 'Net. Just some stuff on the Braves' Page:   http://www.atlantabraves.com/braves/history/story/story_03.shtml 
Best bet? Go for some books. I'm sure you can find some on amazon.com. Good luck!


A question about Golden Gloves - I thought they were determined by fielding percentages. What other factors go into deciding who gets a golden glove?

NetShrine:  The Gold Glove is awarded as a result of voting by coaches and managers. It's a very subjective and sometimes controversial process. Usually, fielding average has little to do with it. (This is because fielding average does little to illustrate range - it just means you didn't flub what you were able to get your hands on.) A lot of it is based on "rep." Often, once you start winning them, it almost becomes a routine thing - season and season. 


Where can I find info on the all-time best hitting pitcher, for a career?  I am trying to find out who has the best average, most home runs, and RBI?  This is for pitchers only - not pitcher who later became hitters.

NetShrine:  Generally speaking, Wes Ferrell is considered as the best hitting "pitcher" of all-time. The reason:

Career HRs - Pitchers:
1. Wes Ferrell 38
2. Bob Lemon 37
3. Red Ruffing 36
4. Earl Wilson 35
Warren Spahn 35
Jack Stivetts 35

Career RBIs - Pitchers:
1. Jack Stivetts 314
2. Cy Young 291
3. Jim Whitney 279
4. Kid Nichols 278
5. Red Ruffing 273

Wes Ferrell - 208

Career BA (1000+ PA) - Pitchers:
1. Jack Stivetts .297
2. George Uhle .289
3. Charlie Ferguson .288
4. Doc Crandall .285
5. Win Mercer .285
6. Guy Hecker .283
7. Red Lucas .281
8. Wes Ferrell .280

Stivetts played from 1889-1899. So, post turn of the century, the nod goes to Ferrell.


I am simply looking for an on-line list of the league leader in stolen bases for each year - any ideas on what site to go to?

NetShrine:  Sad to say, I haven't found such a resource on the 'Net. Best bet is a book - like the STATS All-Time Sourcebook - or some software package (like the Baseball Encyclopedia).


Is there a website that would list all the Major League World Series' winners and division winners? It sounds simple enough, but I have yet to find it.

NetShrine:  Try:   http://cbs.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0112339.html  it's probably a good place to start. Good luck!


Looking for the life history of Cy Young. The books that I have found only briefly refer to him and his major records. They do not provide his life history, such as his school life, his young years, his leadership, and so on. Could you refer me to a site that provides his life history?

NetShrine:  Actually, I haven't found anything on the 'Net for Cy Young that's not just stats, etc. Best bet may be books...........or maybe a search under famous Ohio natives, etc. Try the Baseball Hall of Fame. They may have something in their library?


I am interested in information about Game 4 of the 1962 World Series. Where can I get the boxscore of this game or some play by play information?

NetShrine:  The closest I came was:   http://www.fastball.com/yankees/archives/facts/post/post62.html & http://www.totalworldseries.com/lineups/ws_lineups_1962.html   - I know that many books have the boxscore - like the STATS All-Time Sourcebook.


I am looking for the boxscores from two games.  They are American League games between the Yankees and the Twins. The dates are 8/2/61 & 8/10/68.

NetShrine:  This type of question is a popular one. I've found very little on the 'Net to help with old random boxscore searches. Best bet for you? A library should have old copies of the "NY Times" on microfilm or something. Look for the dates in question - add a day (as the game report will be the next day) - and check the sports section for the Yankee boxes. Good luck.


I'm trying to learn something about Don Gutteridge.

NetShrine:  Second basemen who played in parts of 12 years for the Cards, Browns, Bosox, and Pirates in the 30's-40's. Not much of a stick. Although, in his 2nd day in the bigs, he had 6 hits (including an inside-the-park HR) and 2 steals of home in a DH. In '44, he turned 5 DPs in a game - an AL record for 2Bs.


Cooley Logan - I have read that he was the second or third black ball player for the Mets.  I would really like to find some articles or pictures about him.

NetShrine:  There's no record of Cooley Logan having ever played in the major leagues. The reference you saw may be incorrect? It seemed a bit odd. The Mets first played in 1962 - 15 years after the integration of baseball. Debut distinctions based on race were not very significant by that time. (45 players appeared for the Mets in '62 - many of them were black.) It is possible that your Cooley Logan played for some other team called "Mets" (perhaps a semi-pro team?) and he may have been one of the first black players for that team? But, tracking that down would be difficult. Hope this helps.


I'm looking for the answer to a question, maybe you can help. Who are the only pitchers in major league history to have hit a grand slam homerun? I have looked everywhere for the answer but can't seem to find it. Thank you for all your help.

NetShrine:  I don't know of such a list. Probably quite a few that have done it. If I had to guess, it's probably been done around 20 times. That's a conservative guess - saying it happens about once every 6 years.


It seems as if your method of measuring a players value by comparing him with his contemporaries (which I think is good and necessary) was abandoned for your switch-hitter piece. Of course players will soon have better numbers than the old switch-hitters, but that may have more to do with the era than the ballplayer.

This leads me to my next idea - although it isn't needed yet, I believe that you need to start a new era in your timeline. It's obvious to anyone that the ball has been juiced since 1994, and it seems to be getting worse, with another jump occurring last year. Just like comparing deadball and liveball era players takes some perspective, so does comparing players from the '80's and players now. And, personally, if I had a place for my rantings like you have, I would probably write about that a lot. But you have much bigger and deeper topics.  Your site is excellent and intelligent, keep it up.

NetShrine:  Thanks for your note. Insightful feedback and kind words such as yours are always appreciated!

I realize that my switch-hitter rankings come across as heavy on the modern players. Please don't let this imply that I have abandoned the notion of relativity. Note, that the players on the list from the Lively Ball Era (Frisch, Galan, and Schang) do not rank as high as they may have on someone else's list.

The reason why so many Expansion and Modern Era switchers made and did well on the rankings is due to (what I call) the "Mantle Effect." Until "The Mick" came along, switch hitting didn't receive all that much consideration by players. (Note that no switch hitter won a batting title until Mantle in '56. In the NL, it didn't happen until Rose in '68).

Since switch hitting was not in vogue until the 50's-60's, most of your better ones would not be found before that point. (This is all based on conventional wisdom. There may be numbers to prove me wrong. This is all off the cuff in reply to your note. If you disagree, please let me know - it's worth looking into further.)

As far as the juiced ball - as crazy as this may sound - I don't believe in it. (Many baseball insiders agree.) More so, there are other factors to explain the recent offensive explosion - ballparks, batting styles, conditioning, etc. I actually wrote about this for another website - it's a piece dated 1/27/97 and entitled "Pre-Season Bonus II" and it can be found at www.express-stats.com

Check it out if you have the time - you may enjoy it. In any event, regardless of the cause, I do believe we are currently entering a new Era in baseball now - and that distinction will be soon noted at NetShrine.

Thanks again for your note. Please visit NetShrine again. Keep the feedback coming - it makes my job easier!


I am looking to find a web site that has baseball team lists - including All-Star teams. I am specifically looking for the 1961 All-Star team (That was the one in Cleveland, right?), 1985 All-Star team, 1972, 1984 and 1986 Mets and 1992 Yankees.  If you have a list or can send me a link to find it, I would GREATLY appreciate it.

NetShrine:  Go to:    http://www.baseballstats.com/   they should have everything that you need.


I'm trying to find out who had the most runs batted in, which year, and how many.  It's very important that I find out as quickly as possible.

NetShrine:  TOP 25 RBI TOTALS for a SEASON (Through the 1998 season.)
#   PLAYER - RBI - Year
1.  Hack Wilson - 191 - 1930
2.  Lou Gehrig - 184 - 1931
3.  Hank Greenberg -  183 - 1937
4.  Lou Gehrig - 175 - 1927
     Jimmie Foxx - 175 - 1938
6.  Lou Gehrig - 174 - 1930
7.  Babe Ruth - 171 - 1921
8.  Hank Greenberg - 170 - 1935
     Chuck Klein - 170 - 1930
10. Jimmie Foxx - 169 - 1932
11. Joe Dimaggio - 167 - 1937
12. Lou Gehrig - 165 - 1934
      Al Simmons - 165 - 1930
14. Babe Ruth - 164 - 1927
15. Jimmie Foxx - 163 - 1933
      Babe Ruth - 163 - 1931
17. Hal Trosky - 162 - 1936
18. Lou Gehrig - 159 - 1937
      Ted Williams - 159 - 1949
      Hack Wilson - 159 - 1929
      Vern Stephens - 159 - 1949
22. Sammy Sosa - 158 - 1998
23. Juan Gonzalez - 157 - 1998
      Al Simmons - 157 - 1929
25. Jimmie Foxx - 156 - 1930

Hope this helps.


My brother called today and challenged me to find out what five Cy Young Award winners have been convicted of a felony.  Possible that you can help?  So far it appears that Denny McLain, Dennis Eckersley, Dwight Gooden, and John Smoltz - may fall into that category -- it seems I am still missing one?  Any assistance would be appreciated - if I get to your fair city, I will buy you a hot dog with the works!

NetShrine:  A felony is serious stuff. Don't think that Smoltz or Eck ever were in (convicted) trouble? If I had to guess, I would say McLain, Vida Blue, LaMarr Hoyt, Gooden and Fergie Jenkins. Please let me know if I got any right.

One week later, the following came in:  Thank you for following up -- my brother stated I must have excellent sources -- so -- you are batting 1.000 -- IOU a dog with the works!!


I am looking for a few history facts.  I need to know the roster of the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1895-1925 (during the time of Honus Wagner).  If you could direct me with a link or any type of information, I would greatly appreciate it.

NetShrine:  Go to:    http://www.baseballstats.com/   they should have everything that you need.


What five Italians hit over 40 homeruns in a single season?

NetShrine:  Joe DiMaggio - Rocky Colavito - Rico Petrocelli - Dante Bichette - Roy Campanella.

Two days later, the following came in:  Have to ask one more thing on this....sorry to pester you. Dante Bichette is Italian? And what about Piazza and Conigliaro?

NetShrine:  You may be right! Piazza did hit 40. Tony C. never did. Perhaps Bichette is not Italian? I'll have to look into it further.  [Curator's Note:  To date, NetShrine is unable to confirm whether or not "Alphonse Dante Bichette" is of Italian ancestry.  Dante, are you out there?  If so, let us know!]


I would like to get a list of major league general managers and their e-mail addresses.

NetShrine:  Don't know of anything on-line - but, if you go to www.baseballamerica.com you can order their 1999 Directory which has the info you seek.


I wonder if you could possibly help me with a little search and seizure dilemma I'm having - I have a signed baseball from the 1986 Padres with 4 names on it. Two of them I can't make out and I am thinking about selling the ball. Where could I come up with a list of players that were on the 1986 team?  Any help would be appreciated.

NetShrine:  This might help - John Kruk - Terry Kennedy - Carmelo Martinez - Lance McCullers - Kevin McReynolds - Ray Hayward - Andy Hawkins - La marr Hoyt - Eric Show - Benito Santiago - Tim Stoddard - Bob Stoddard - Randy Asadoor - Randy Ready - Jerry Royster - Bip Roberts - Mark Parent - Tim Pyznarski - Tim Flannery - Dave Dravecky - Jimmy Jones - Ed Vosberg - Mark Thurmond - Garry Templeton - Ed Whitson - Mark Wasinger - Gene Walter - Marvell Wynne - Ed Wojna - Dave Lapoint - Craig Lefferts - Graig Nettles - Bruce Bochy - Dane Iorg - Steve Garvey - Gary Green - Tony Gwynn - Rich Gossage.


I was trying to find something in your website and I didn't see it.  I wanted to know who was the MVP of the first All Star Game.  Do you know?

NetShrine:  The 1st All-Star game was in 1933 - they didn't have MVP awards for the game back then. They started giving out the award in '62 - Juan Marichal and Maury Wills won it for the game on 7/10/62 and Leon Wagner won it for the game on 7/30/62. (From '59 to '62, they played 2 games each year.)


Can you help me find the answer to a question about the Philadelphia A's?  Who had their last hit and how many hits did that guy have in his career?  Thanks.

NetShrine:  No idea. Best bet would be to go to one of the Philly papers on-line and see if they have an archive. Check September-October 1954 and see who got the last hit. Once you find the guy, the hit total is easy! Good luck.


1876 New York Mutuals:  Do you happen to know what were the colors of their uniforms ?

NetShrine:  Looks like they were black and white - according to all the old photos that I've seen. OK, just kidding. A while back ago, someone did a book on uniforms, don't remember the name, the answer may be there? I'm not aware of the colors - although I doubt it was anything flashy. Probably mostly white for home and gray for the road.


Most of the men on your list weren't good enough long enough, but I want to plug (Johnny) Sain because he won 20 or more in 4 of the first 5 years after WWII, peaking at 24 in 1948 when his team won the NL pennant.  It's fair to guess that the war impacted his stats, and he was as good as anyone of his generation (except Bob Feller, the most underrated pitcher of all time).

NetShrine:  Agreed. Sain is already under consideration - and will most likely make it - see our "Pending Candidates" list on the site. Thanks for the back-up - it's always appreciated. Please visit the site again.


Great site! I believe Wally Berger should be inducted. He was the only thing the Braves had going for them in the mid 30's and was a gentleman to boot! Plus he was a smart defensive player and is the only, or one of the only, players from the 1933 All-Star game not in the HOF. Besides he was my dad's favorite player and he saw many greats in Boston in later 20's through late 50's.

NetShrine:  Thanks for the feedback! Wally Berger will be added with our next update - thanks for the confirmation on his achievements.


Heard a surprising claim on non-sport radio program here in New York.  World Series originally named for New York World (big circulation paper with a lot of 19th Century sports promotion activity). Any idea how to confirm, refute the claim?

NetShrine:  Originally, the term was "World's Series" - short for "World's Championship Series." Don't think it had anything to do with the paper.


Wish I had run into your site earlier. Very good thought provoking material. I am not sure we think exactly alike, but that is great. On my first large promotion, my new boss (The VP) gave me a bit of advice. He said, "Fire anyone that always agrees with you. You only need one of you!" Very good advice, it turns out. One minor thought though. I've always thought that Jim Rice's performance is underestimated. The Red Sox (source of much of my neuroses) treated Rice poorly. He was the first long-term Black player. I grew up around Boston, and can testify to its racist nature although I am not Black myself. The Sox waited until 1959 to get Pumpsie Green. After that they traded Reggie Smith, Cecil Cooper, and Juan Beniquez just when they were developing. We knew from the Globe and Herald the reason was their request for equal pay for equal work. I have often wondered how many pennants Yaz cost the Sox just by being there and playing. I think the last thirteen years of his career should not have kept him in the starting lineup.

NetShrine:  This is truly ironic - just Tuesday night, I was speaking with a colleague at work - after hearing that Griffey had asked to be traded. My co-worker is from Boston and he stated that he had hoped that the Sox could somehow get Griffey. Well, my friend is 16 years my junior - so, I had to tell him that it was only a few years ago that certain black players (Tim Raines was one - I think?) had it stated in their contract that they would never play for Boston - - because of the stories heard from Rice and others who played there...........and perhaps Griffey felt the same way? In any event, glad you enjoyed the site - please visit us again.


Great site.....I am looking for more biographical information on Dwight Evans, perhaps something more detailed than was found at your Under Appreciated site. I would greatly appreciate any info you could email me or perhaps, point me in the right direction.

NetShrine:  Try these:   http://redsox.com/yesteryear/allstar/evans.html  and http://www.fwp.simplenet.com/redsox/Players/Evans/index.html  thanks for checking out NetShrine. Please visit again.


I visited your site and was wondering if you would please take the time to fill out this baseball survey.  I have to write a 5-8 page report in my English class.  I picked baseball as my report. We had to make surveys and ask people who are important and would know our questions. So, please take a little time to fill out this survey and send it back. Thank you so much.

1) Name
2) Title
3) When was baseball invented?
4) Who invented baseball?
5) How do you think baseball has changed over the years?
6) Where is the strike zone?
7) What franchise has been the most successful franchise in baseball?
8) What do you know about baseball?
9) Where is the baseball Hall-of-Fame?
10) Where was baseball created?
11) What is a strike?
12) What is a ball?

NetShrine:  My pleasure - here we go!

1) Name - Steve Lombardi
2) Title - Curator of www.netshrine.com
3) When was baseball invented?  It's been around in some form since 1744.
4) Who invented baseball?  Tony LaRussa likes to think that he did.
5) How do you think baseball has changed over the years?  Very much in some ways and very little in others.
6) Where is the strike zone?  It varies from umpire to umpire.
7) What franchise has been the most successful franchise in baseball?  The Major League Baseball Players Association.
8) What do you know about baseball?  Ninety percent of it is half mental.
9) Where is the baseball Hall-of-Fame?  According to Jimmy Cannon, "Where baseball writers send their friends."
10) Where was baseball created?  Most likely in a British school yard.
11) What is a strike?  A preemptive measure to a lockout.
12) What is a ball?  A pitch that Ted Williams would never swing at.


1949 Cairo Dodgers.   Can you tell me what their uniform colors were and what was on their hats?  If I remember, Bill Heart was the manager.  He use to come by my step-father's house and they would talk baseball. My step-father played with the Senators and various minor league teams. I was only 8 or 9 years old at the time.

NetShrine:  I do not have any of the information that you seek on this team - - my best guess being that it was a Dodgers' farm team in Illinois. You should check out Mike McCann's Minor League Baseball Page @   www.ecl.udel.edu/~mccann/minor.html  - He may be able to help you more. Tell them that NetShrine sent you. Good luck.


While I have great respect for the players listed on your site, I wish to offer up for consideration the curriculum vitae of John Phelan "Stuffy" McInnis. Please consider: (1.) Over a nineteen year major league career, career Avg. of .308. (2.) More career R.'s B.I. (1060) than George Kelly (1020), more hits (2,406) than "Sunny" Jim Bottomley (2,313), more career extra-base hits (413) than Frank Chance (279), and fewer errors at first base (194) than George Sisler (274). You will note that all of the above comparative players are in the Hall. (3.) Member of Connie Mack's illustrious "$100,000" infield. (4.) Drove in 90 runs+ 4 times in 19 years (mostly during the so-called "Dead-Dark" ball period before 1920). (5.) Compares favorably with other recent Vet's committee selections (e.g. Vic Willis; Rick Ferrell etc.).  (6.) According to Bill James, was the first to use the "splits" position to receive throws to first base. (7.) Remaining descendants would get great joy out of his elevation to Hall! (8.) Played on FIVE WORLD CHAMPIONS: A's 1910-11-13; Red Sox 1918; Pirates 1925. (9.) No one in Ipswich, MA remembers him any more. (10.) He is often compared with Hal Chase, a truly sublime example of Good versus Evil....What do you think?

NetShrine:  Thanks for this info! Actually, he's in NetShrine already - - NetShrine's UNDER APPRECIATED from the Dead Ball Era Wing, if you want to check it out.


Can you inform me who the top ten batters are who have the most lifetime home runs against the same pitcher? I have a gentlemen's bet that the record is held by Duke Snider for having hit the most home runs lifetime against the same pitcher, Robin Roberts, 32, I think ??? It's not a common statistic and I can't find it.

NetShrine:  We do not have any reference on this - but, if you want it bad enough, contact the folks who run the The Tattersall/McConnell Home Run Log @ http://www.sabr.org/homerun.shtml  You'll have to pay - but, I bet you that they have it.


Regarding Vada Pinson:   You could have advised that he was the second member of the 250 HR/300 SB club after Willie Mays. Or that only one player in history can top him in the all of the following categories...2757 hits, 485 2B, 127 3B, 256 HR, & 305 SB...which again is Willie Mays. That's more impressive than what you listed.

Besides, considering the Reds of Pinson's day were really only Pinson, Frank Robinson, and maybe one other player who happened to have a "career year" would you walk Pinson (the fastest player in the game according to Mickey Mantle, Ed Lopat, and Frank Robinson) to pitch to Robinson? Pinson usually batted 3rd, in front of Robinson. One more thing...

I have never seen this mentioned, but for a 9 year period, from 1959-1967, check out how Vada Pinson ranks, against ALL MAJOR LEAGUE players, including HOFers such as Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Killebrew, Cepeda, Kaline, Frank & Brooks Robinson, Ernie Banks, and others who were in their primes...

Hits: Doubles: Triples:
2. Hank Aaron-1704 2. Frank Robinson-294 2. Clemente-82
3. Clemente-1684 3. Hank Aaron-292 3. John Callison-75
4. Willie Mays-1557 4. Willie Mays-265 4. Lou Brock-61
5. F. Robinson-1492 5. Yastrzemski-258 5. Z. Versalles-58


Games: Stolen Bases: Runs Scored:
1. VADA PINSON-1408 1. Maury Wills-450 1. Willie Mays-1027
2. Hank Aaron-1387 2. Luis Aparicio-357 2. Hank Aaron-1023
3. Willie Mays-1384 3. Lou Brock-272 3. F. Robinson-939
4. Rocky Colavito-1379 4. VADA PINSON-202 4. VADA PINSON-898
5. Bill Mazeroski-1356 5. Willie Davis-180 5. H. Killebrew-816


Extra Base Hits: Total Bases: Runs + RBI:
1. Hank Aaron-678 1. Hank Aaron-3109 1. Hank Aaron-2070
2. Willie Mays-663 2. Willie Mays-2966 2. Willie Mays-1997
3. Frank Robinson-641 3. Frank Robinson-2785 3. F. Robinson-1923
4. VADA PINSON-576 4. VADA PINSON-2746 4. H. Killebrew-1754
5. H. Killebrew-560 5. H. Killebrew-2561 5. VADA PINSON-1656

Pinson also hit 180 Homeruns during this period and ranked 12th in RBI with 758.

That, my friends, is a very impressive feat for someone not in the Hall of Fame! Pinson is often knocked for his batting average but he actually, from this same nine year period, had the 9th highest average, an even .300, for players with at least 3000 AB. Everybody ahead of him, except for Tommy Davis who barely had the required at-bats, is a Hall of Famer. Pinson hit, for his lifetime, hit .286. Max Carey, a HOF centerfielder from the 1st half of the century, hit .285. However, Pinson's lifetime average is .033 points better than the overall league(s) he played in (I only added the specific league he was playing in into the total), whereas Carey's is only .014 points better. Duke Snider, who played mainly in the 1950s had a lifetime average of .295 out hit Pinson by "nine points", but only out the league lifetime by .036, really only a 3 point lead. Hack Wilson hit .307 lifetime but only .024 better than the league. Pinson did have a long decline phase after 1967, although he did league in fielding, this time as a rightfielder, in 1969, and had a fine season with Cleveland in 1970. But for his era, he was the second best centerfielder in the game behind Willie Mays.

NetShrine:   Thanks for this great information. It deserves to be shared. 


Just finished watching (for the umpteenth time) the life story of Jim Piersall. Can't seem to find any information on the net about him. Any suggestions?

NetShrine:   Try this URL:   http://www.sportingnews.com/baseball/articles/19991113/189163-p.html  Best guess: given his age, and the lack of a job, he's probably retired.


Love your site! A question for you: my brother and I are trying to gather info about our grandfather for a family history. We believe he played ball in the 3-I League (Illinois-Indiana-Iowa) circa 1915 - 1917. Any ideas where we could find more info on the individual teams ... rosters, box scores, etc.?? Thanks for any help you can give!

NetShrine:   Thanks for the kind words. Try this site: http://www.ecl.udel.edu/~mccann/minor.html  and contact Mike McCann. He may be able to assist you. Good luck.

The next day, the following came in:  It was Mike who sent me to you! If any other ideas come to mind, please let me know.

NetShrine:   Try the HOF Research Library:  http://baseballhalloffame.org/library/index.htm  or SABR's Research Group:  http://www.sabr.org/committ/minors.shtml  Good luck!


I love playing with baseball statistics, so I took a look at your pitchers in Pending Candidates: Joaquin Andujar, Johnny Antonelli, Jimmy Key, Mark Langston, Jack McDowell, Bob Purkey, Steve Rogers, Mel Stottlemyre.

I ran them through three of Bill James's Hall of Fame tests (with the understanding that NetShrinees need not necessarily measure up to the Seavers and Koufaxes). The source of these statistical tests is his book "The Politics of Glory". Let me know if you need explanations.

Sources for stats were:
http://baseball-almanac.com/ (No-hitters)
http://baseball1.com/database/ (Postseason data)

I was occasionally generous in scoring; if a player missed a statistical threshold by one win, or by 6 innings pitched, etc, I gave it to him. Then I simply ranked the player scores from highest to lowest, and added the rank scores. I think this put the candidates for enshrinement in an order that is about right. Highest Index score is best.  As far as NetShrine admittance, I'd take the top five; I don't think the others make the cut. McDowell's close, but his career was too short; he only really had three years that I'd want to "bring home to Mother". Antonelli had a similar career, but he had five or six strong years to Black Jack's three, plus a good year in relief in 1960. His troughs were not as low as McDowell's. Andujar might be a fun guy to throw in for anecdotal color, but his numbers don't match up to the others. He clearly had a lot of intangibles; however; his teams tended to win, and he got those head-scratching All-Star nods with Houston. Purkey certainly seems to be the weak sister of this group, but since I didn't see him play, I won't cast stones. Clearly, in the case of Purkey & Stottlemyre, gaudy numbers from pitchers in the 60's need to be discounted a bit.

HOF Monitor

Black Ink

HOF Standards



63 (6.5)

14 (8)

33 (8)



63 (6.5)

12 (7)

23 (5.5)



71 (8)

7 (2)

27 (7)



48 (5)

11 (5.5)

16 (3)



45.5 (4)

8 (3.5)

23 (5.5)



33.5 (2)

11 (5.5)

17 (4)



35.5 (3)

8 (3.5)

13 (1)



31 (1)

3 (1)

15 (2)



Key: Crafty LHP from Alabama; always among league's best. ERA champ in 1987; win leader in 1994. 4-time All-Star. 2 WS rings (Tor. 1992, NYY 1996). 186 wins; .614 win pct. (wow!) Lost 1-0 to Frank Tanana in 1987 to end the regular season and lose the AL East.

Langston: 7 Gold Gloves (wow!); almost 2500 K's; 179 wins. Pitched for bad teams in his prime; then good teams when washed up -- on NL pennant winner Padres in 1998. Led AL in K's 3 times, incl. Rookie year. Wild; almost 1300 walks. 4-time All-Star

Stottlemyre: Before my time. Best pitcher on bad Yankee teams, 1964-1974. Ace; workhorse. 3-time 20 game winner; 5 time All-Star. 164 wins in short career (on mostly bad teams -- wow!). Lifetime ERA of 2.97 (in the '60's). 40 shutouts -- 43rd all time. Played as rookie for 1964 AL champs. Now distinguished pitching coach (w/ 4 WS rings -- Mets, Yankees). Currently being treated for cancer.

Rogers: Montreal's all-time leader in almost all pitching categories. 3.17 career ERA (in the '70's & '80's -- wow!); 37 shutouts -- 56th all-time. 5-time All-Star. Winning record (158-152), despite bad Expo teams of '70's. 1982 NL ERA leader. Ace of 1981 NL East champs; gave up famous HR to Rick Monday in NLCS.

Antonelli: Before my time. 2-time 20 game winner. Best pitcher on WS winning 1954 Giants; probable Cy Young if it was awarded. Stalwart for Giants in '50's; 5 All-Star games. Career ended early.

McDowell: 1993 Cy Young. "Black Jack". Ace & workhorse of White Sox in early '90's; 2-time 20 game winner; .593 win pct; 3-time All-Star. Arm blew out at 30; short career. Between 1990-1998, no team McDowell played for finished lower than 3rd in its division; 4 division titles, 4 2nd place finishes, one 3rd place finish, one wildcard (1995 Yankees).

Andujar: Staff ace on great early 80's Cardinal teams, incl. 1982 WS champs & 1985 pennant winners; also NL West champion 1980 Astros. Good fielder & athlete. Famous temper. 2-time 20-game winner; 4-time All-Star (including some eyebrow-raising selections in 1977 & 1979 from Houston; must've had great 1st halves).

Purkey: Before my time. In 1962 was eye-popping 23-5, 2.81 in a pitcher's year; led Reds to NL pennant. 3 time All-Star. Played for strong Red teams in early '60's. 3-time All-Star. Really just had the one very big year and a few solid ones.

   Thanks for some wonderful analysis. Agreed, playing with stats is great fun. Can't remember who said it, nor do we remember it exactly, but the line "Baseball fans are addicts, and their heroin is statistics" certainly rings true many times.


I've gone over the non-pitching candidates [on the current NetShrine ballot] in much the same way I analyzed the pitching candidates. This was more complicated:

1. All the pitchers were basically alike -- starters. Non-pitchers can be offensive or defensive minded, play different positions, hit for average or power, etc.

2. The above makes comparison across eras more complex. Also, some of the players went back further, into the 30's & 40's.

3. Several of these players had careers as managers that ought to be taken into account. Significantly, Fregosi may be a more notable manager at this point than a player. (Consequently, he's one of the toughest calls.)

Nevertheless, I gave it my best shot, and came up with an Excel workbook, with 4 spreadsheets. There are two variables that account for different iterations of the index. The Black Ink test, once you got past the top few players, didn't have a lot of variation, so the difference between a Black Ink score of 2 and of 1, for example, was overstated. So I ran it both ways. Also, I added in credit for managers, but wasn't certain if that should be a factor; so again, I ran it both ways.

(To download the workbook, click here:  August 9, 2000 Mailbag File.)

I am only old enough to remember players from the late 70's onward; everyone else I'm analyzing through statistics and written anecdote alone. On the more obscure guys, it's basically all stats and inference from therein. Nutshell analysis on the candidates, in rough order of worthiness:

Strongest Recommend Admit:

1. Raines: No-brainer; he really doesn't even belong in this group. (Why the waiting period for Raines, Steve?) Arguably the best player in the NL in the mid-80's. Probable Hall of Famer (HOFer), the only one in this bunch. I won't belabor the justification any further.

Strong Recommend Admit:

2. Groat: I'm surprised at how well his numbers add up; he could be a HOFer. Why not? I don't know anything about his glove; I'll assume he was an ordinary fielder, not Ozzie Smith, nor Dr. Strangeglove. 2000+ hits, 1960 batting champ, SS on 2 WS champs, 1960 MVP, 5 time All-Star (AS). Very strong credentials.

3. McCormick: Career started late, only played 9 seasons as a regular. Was an AS every one of those 9 years; that says a lot. 1940 MVP, 3 times hits champ, 1 time RBI champ, 1 time doubles champ. .299 career BA. Played during the war, but best seasons were pre-war.

4. Elliott: Another MVP, in 1947. (An MVP must have bought a nomination.) Mostly a 3B, he logged some time in the OF as well. Six 100-RBI seasons, almost 1200 RBI total; 2000+ hits; good BA, great OBA. The type of player that is really very good, but tends to be under appreciated because he's not a HR hitter nor a high BA hitter. Managed the KC A's for one season; suffering is good for the soul.

5. Bowa: Brilliant fielding SS for excellent Phillies teams of the 70's and early 80's, including 1980 WS winners (and closed out on the division-winning 1984 Cubs). I think he's the record holder for career fielding percentage by a SS, though I can't find confirmation on that. Stole over 300 bases; led the league in triples in 1972; 2000+ hits. 5-time AS; 2 Gold Gloves (GG) (in the same league as the flashier Davey Concepcion; many think Bowa was better). Traded to Cubs, along with a throw-in named Ryne Sandberg. Managed about 200 games in the 80's; long-time 3B coach around the majors since. (Seems to have been runner up for about a half dozen managerial jobs since SD fired him.)

Recommend Admit:

6. Wallach: Solid 3B in the 80's and 90's, mostly in Montreal. 5-time AS, 3 GG's (perhaps more if the start of his career hadn't overlapped the end of Mike Schmidt's). Hit a lot of doubles; led NL twice. 17 year career: 260 HR, 1125 RBI, 2085 hits. With a good glove at 3B, that's enough.

7. Richardson: Career ended abruptly at 30; I think it was injury-related. Slick fielder at 2b (5 GG's) on great Yankee teams of 50's and 60's. 7-time AS. Led league in AB three straight years; 1962 hit leader. Played 12 seasons; Yankees won 9 AL pennants & 4 WS. WS MVP in 1960 -- although Yankees lost!

8. Crandall: Caught almost 1500 games in a 16-season career. Glory years were on the strong Milwaukee Braves teams of the 50's. 8-time AS; provided power and defense behind the plate (8 straight seasons of 15 or more HR's; 4 GG's -- and the award was inaugurated mid-career.) During heart of his career, his team finished 1st or 2nd every year but one -- 2 pennants, one WS. Managed 800+ games for bad Brewer and Mariner teams.

9. Cey: "The Penguin" -- Slugging 3B in the famous LA Dodger infield of the 70's and early 80's -- and also ended up on that 1984 Cub team. Until this year, was the all time HR leader for LA Dodgers (Eric Karros passed him). 1981 WS co-MVP; 6 time AS. 17 year career: 316 HR, 1139 RBI, 1868 hits; similar to Wallach, w/o the doubles and with a more ordinary glove -- but with more HR power.


Overall comment: You nominated a gaggle of middle infielders with statistics which were less than eye-popping, but who had solid mid-length careers. Of those, Groat stood out primarily for his hitting, Bowa primarily for his fielding, and Richardson primarily through all those pennants (and the fielding). That leaves Temple, Fregosi, Beckert, Carrasquel, and Bolling. Frankly, I never had heard of any of these guys except Fregosi, so I'm going strictly by stats here. I'm going to guess all of their fielding skills were good-to-excellent, at least during their peak years, and they all are mainly identified with the team they had their peak years with.

10. Temple: Best stats of the bunch. 4 time AS at 2B, hit .300 three times, career .284. Played peak years in 1950's for Cincinnati. Led league in AB in 1956, then walks in 1957 -- an odd combination when you think about it. If you want one more MI, Temple seems to be the guy.

11. Fregosi: A shortstop with pop for the expansion Angels in the 1960's. 6 time AS, one GG (he was in the same league as Luis Aparicio, Zoilo Versalles, and Mark Belanger). Led league in triples in 1968. Traded for Nolan Ryan in 1971, after which he declined to a part time player for the remainder of his career. At the end of his playing career, began managing immediately, and has managed all or parts of 15 seasons with one pennant and one division title (and only one other season -- 1999 -- with a winning record; probably this season too). The managing sets him apart, though I'm not sure it should. I watched him single-handedly blow the 1993 WS by continually, with foolish stubbornness, handing the ball to Mitch Williams, when it was apparent to everyone else in North America that he had a dead arm and was completely ineffective. Still, 40 years of high-profile service to the game means something. The toughest call in the bunch, but I don't think he should make it solely on his playing career, nor on his managing career, but perhaps the combination of the two. A good comparison might be Lou Piniella, probably a better manager but not quite Fregosi's match as a player.

Recommend Do Not Admit:

12. Beckert: Played nine seasons at 2B with the Cubs, plus two decline seasons with the Padres. 4-time AS, led league in runs in 1968. Flukish .342 BA in 1971. One GG, in 1968 (ended Mazeroski's hold on the prize) . Good player, but he wasn't even the best in his DP combo (Don Kessinger -- lesser bat but better glove).

13. Carrasquel: Best years of his career were spent on the White Sox, then he was moved to Cleveland to make room for Aparicio, and finished up with KC and Baltimore. 4 time AS w/ Pale Hose; had decent pop for a SS in the 50's. Short 10-year career. Never saw him, so perhaps I'm ignorant of something here, but I'd prefer Ozzie Guillen among White Sox SS. Among SS in general, I might prefer Bucky Dent. Or Walt Weiss. (This is across eras, but I'm working off the top of my head on this. Plus, I think active players are ineligible in the case of Guillen & Weiss; I'm just making a point.)

14. Bolling: 12-year career, half with Detroit and half with the Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves. 2B with decent power for the era. Best season in 1958, with 75 RBI (career high) and a GG. 2 time AS with Braves. Solid player, but unspectacular. We're comparing across eras again, but is this guy better than Willie Randolph? Sure doesn't seem like it to me.

I suppose you might consider the above to be nominations for Kessinger, Dent, and Randolph for the next round. Randolph's the best candidate as an all-around player. Kessinger was mainly a glove man, but a good one; good enough, I'm not sure. Dent would have to make it on his famous Fenway HR and that movie he made with the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.

NetShrine:   Thanks for the excellent analysis and commentary. Great work. Enlightening as well as entertaining. If NetShrine had a payroll, we'd have to put you on it!


Can you get me the list of top ten pitchers of all time in the hit batters category?

NetShrine:   Walter Johnson 203 - Eddie Plank 196 - Joe McGinnity 182 - Chick Fraser 177 - Charlie Hough 174 - Cy Young 163 - Jim Bunning 160 - Nolan Ryan 158 - Vic Willis 157 - Bert Blyleven 155.


My only suggestion to your site is elevating Don Mattingly above the "Icon" status.  He was a great man on and off the field, one of only 6 Yankee captains ever, and provided offensive firepower and defensive stability to one of the few Yankee generations not to capture a World Series.  Mattingly being grouped with Rob Deer is an atrocity.   Besides being able to smoke a baseball and being arguably the best fielding first baseman ever, Mattingly was a born and proven leader and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame - sooner than later.  I hope you agree.

NetShrine:   Through his accomplishments during his 14-year Major League Baseball playing career, Don Mattingly has established himself as one of the all-time great New York Yankees.  In the distinguished history of the New York franchise, only three players have produced 2,000+ Hits, 400+ Doubles, 200+ Homeruns, 1000+ RBI, and a .300+ career Batting Average while wearing Yankee pinstripes:  Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, and Don Mattingly.  In addition to being one of only three in the Yankee 2000-400-200-1000-300 club, Don was a 6-time A.L. All-Star and a 9-time A.L. Gold Glove winner at 1B.  (The latter is an American League record.)  During various seasons in his career, Mattingly was the league leader in offensive categories such as Hits, Doubles, Total Bases, RBI, Runs Created, Batting Average, Slugging Percentage, and in defensive categories such as Putouts, Double Plays, and Fielding Percentage.

However, Donnie cannot be considered an Immortal, Grinder, Under Appreciated - therefore, he fell into our Icon slot. This doesn't imply that he and Deer are equals in achievements or talent - more so, it's meant to note that their names, when mentioned, clearly remind you of when they played.

Mattingly was a great Yankee - - let's remember him as that.


I just read your curator's realignment plan posted on March 12. I think I've come up with a plan that respects not only geography, which the curator seems exceedingly concerned about, but tradition as well, and it certainly produces a much simpler schedule. Let me know what you think.

A Realignment Plan:


East Central Midwest West
Baltimore Orioles Charlotte Knights Houston Astros Anaheim Angels
Boston Red Sox Chicago White Sox Kansas City Royals Arizona D-backs
New York Yankees Cleveland Indians Minnesota Twins San Jose Athletics
Toronto Blue Jays Detroit Tigers Texas Rangers Seattle Mariners


East South Central West
New York Mets Atlanta Braves Chicago Cubs Colorado Rockies
Philadelphia Phillies Florida Marlins Cincinnati Reds Los Angeles Dodgers
Pittsburgh Pirates Nashville Generals Milwaukee Brewers San Diego Padres
Virginia Stallions Tampa Bay Devil Rays St. Louis Cardinals San Fran. Giants

Franchise shifts and expansion: Oakland moves to San Jose; Montreal moves to Fairfax County, VA (the D.C. suburbs); expansion franchises are granted to Nashville and Charlotte.

Season schedule: 22 games vs. each division opponent, 7 games vs. each remaining league opponent, 3 games vs. each team in 1 division in the other league (which would rotate on a 4-year basis).

Post-season schedule: Only division champions qualify. All series best-of-7.

Brief explanation: The Coliseum is no place for baseball, and with the Raiders and Giants around, the A's aren't drawing. SJ is a wealthier area and I believe there are potential owners who are very willing to move the team there. A franchise would absolutely thrive in the Washington, DC area (I went to the Univ. of Va. for 4 years, so I'm familiar with the region), and the Expos are the perfect choice, given the wretched conditions in Montreal. Orioles' owner Peter Angelos can claim territorial infringement all he wants, but he has a veto only if the DC team is placed in the AL. Charlotte is the obvious next choice for expansion; it was among the finalists in 1993 and 1998 and made a run at the Twins. Nashville isn't as big as San Antonio, Jacksonville, or Indianapolis, but Texas and Florida each have two teams already, and Indiana is surrounded by well-established franchises in Chicago, Detroit, and Ohio. Nashville would give MLB a market in a geographical area it has never before entered, and if this center of Southern life can support NHL hockey, then baseball would do just fine. The talent pool in the U.S. and the international sources from which MLB draws players is more than sufficient to stock 2 more teams, and the Carolinas and Tennessee are 2 fast-growing markets that would welcome, and be able to support, major-league franchises. My plan allows for the return of meaningful division races, reduces travel, implements a practicable interleague format, and re-introduces the unbalanced schedule. All of these are stated goals of the MLB owners, and my plan achieves them while respecting the historical continuity of both leagues, which cannot be said for the plan set forth by the curator. Thank you.

   Interesting plan. Couple of thoughts - First, is baseball ready for expansion? That would require at least 20 more pitchers for the big leagues (under your plan to add two teams). It's probably easier to name 20 pitchers in the bigs now that are not ready for prime time than it would be to find 20 in the bushes now who are worthy to take the big league hill. Secondly, that said, your plan would be an excellent topic for the NetShrine Discussion Forum - please consider pasting it into a new "topic" in the forum. Many may enjoy it and some useful feedback may be received.


What about Kevin Mitchell? Awesome power, league MVP in '89, career shortened by weight problems and off-field 'incidents'. Once chauffeured to game by accused gangland murderer. Could still hit at age 38 and 260+ pounds. Finally (?) suspended from organized baseball after decking rival minor-league team's owner during on-field brawl.

Another... Dave Winfield. Personified first wave of high-priced free-agency when signed multi-million-dollar contract with Yankees in '81. Played nearly 25 years. Had MVP-caliber season at age 41. First (?) man to drive in 100+ runs past age 40 (I heard this, but am not sure if it is correct). Amazing multi-talented athlete who wisely chose baseball for his career.

I think that between these two men we have most, if not all, the attributes of the archetypal modern baseball player. Balance Mitchell's reckless confidence and controversial 'tude with Winfield's smooth on-field grace and athleticism, and you have... Barry Bonds. (Another good candidate, though I notice you all tend to focus away from the superstars.) Fine site, enjoyed it very much.

NetShrine:   Thanks for the note. Agreed, Mitchell should and will be considered. Winny is in though - see THE GRINDERS from the Modern Era. Lastly, superstars? We love them - and all the retired ones are in NetShrine - somewhere. If you're looking for someone in particular, try our search feature upon your next visit.


Could you please tell me how to find out who was the only major league baseball player who served in both World Wars?

NetShrine:    Don't have that information - but, I bet that Gary Bedingfield of    http://www.baseballinwartime.co.uk/  does - - he can be contacted at wartimebaseball@hotmail.com  - - tell him that www.netshrine.com sent you. Good luck!

[Editor's Note:  Anyone know the answer?  Let us know - - still find it hard to believe that someone served in both - he would have been forty-something for WWII, no?]


I am looking for someone who can help me date a bat. I have a photo (below). The bat is 36 inches long and weighs 42 oz.

The bat In Question

NetShrine:  Interesting - could be old, then again, not. Best bet is to check with these two groups:

Appraisers Association of America
386 Park Avenue South - Suite 2000
New York, NY 10016
(212) 889-5404

Sports Collectors Digest
700 East State Street
Iola, WI 54990
(715) 445-2214

Good luck!


[Re: RUMINATIONS feature "Buy a Walk Instead of a Vowel"]  Every time I read about OBA I come back to Hal Lanier - Big Hal didn't make the plate appearance cut, but look him up for ineptitude. Unlike the guys in your list, he was not a noted defensive player - my recollection as a far away Giant fan in those days was that he was adequate at best.  He slugged (!!!!!) about .275 and OBA'ed about .255 -- I hand-figured those numbers from an old baseball encyclopedia so I can't swear to their exactitude.  My calculations show Aurelio R. slugged .351.  What hurt as a Giants' fan then was that they were a perennial second with that guy as a regular for just about 7 years.  As a Willie Mays fan I hold the managers who played the son of Max Lanier personally responsible for the gaping hole in Willie's resume --- no RBI titles. The Giants kept thinking they needed pitching - Cepeda for Sadecki stands out - and kept making bad trades.  When Willie was just about washed up, they put a 20 year-old journeyman to-be at SS and won the western division.  Chris Speier wasn't any good really -- he just wasn't Hal Lanier.  Of note on your low OBA list - Brooks Robinson' s appearance in the top ten should disqualify him from any of those century awards he seemed to have been awarded.  Where's Ron Santo, Brooks' superior contemporary, when these awards are passed around? Interesting to me is the name Ferris on the bad list -- Look up Fain, Ferris and see where he would fit on any good list.

NetShrine:  Santo's OBA was 11% better than Robinson's OBA. Lanier was above average with the leather - according to the numbers. Supposedly, a bad beaning left him with epilepsy which affected his hitting. At least they stopped him before 4,000 PA. But, at the 3,800 PA level, during his time, he was the worst (next to the first A-Rod).  See chart below:

OBA In Lanier's Time


I am looking for past results of the California League Championship Series, winners and losers.  Do you have any information on this?

NetShrine:   We do not. But, did you try the league directly (via e-mail at mail@californialeague.com)? If yes, and unsuccessful, try Baseball America @ www.baseballamerica.com - you can e-mail them from their page. Good luck.


I have a question that perhaps you can help me with:  When James "Cool Papa" Bell played for the St. Louis Stars (his longest tenure on any one team), what number did he wear on his uniform? I'm not positive the Negro National Leaguers wore numbers back then, but it would be nice to know.

NetShrine:   The Negro Leagues are really not our forte - better bet may be James A. Riley, Director of Research at the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, who possibly can be reached c/o frontoffice@blackbaseball.com   - worth a shot. Good luck.


I was given a 1927 team photo of the Yankees. I am looking for some information that can help me identify the players. The only player I recognize is Babe Ruth. He is standing to the far right. There are three people seated on the ground. The guy to the far left looks to be a batboy. The guy standing to the far left is not in uniform. He has a white shirt and a bowtie. There is a middle row of players seated on chairs. Do you know how I can identify each person? Thank you.

NetShrine:   Best bet - go to the library and look at all the old Yankee books and see if you can match up the faces. If you have an image file to pass, we would be glad to look at it and see how many we know.


I love your site! Thanks so much.  I do have a question and I am not sure if there is an answer. Here goes:

I love to keep track of ballplayers. I love statistics, of course. But I also like to know what became of them. You lose track of people and would like to know "where they are now." But I can't seem to find a web-site database that has:

A). Complete lifetime stats for all players with MLB service and,
B). Information on what they have done since retirement (or even if they are retired). Some guys disappear for a year or two -- Japan, AAA or independent leagues -- and then surface.

Examples: Whatever happened to Eric King and Wayne Edwards, two very capable White Sox pitchers in 1990? Wes Chamberlain had a couple of decent years with the bat in Philly. Did he retire? Career-ending injury? Move to Japan? There are hundreds of ballplayers I want to know about but can't seem to get info anywhere. Any suggestions of a website that might help? MLB.com is useless unless guys are currently on an ML roster. HELP!

NetShrine:  As far as stats, we highly recommend http://www.baseball-reference.com as a source. They're the best.

Where are they now? Hmm, players are all over and always doing different things. Best bet? Get a copy of the Baseball Address List by R. Jack Smalling. Contacting the players you seek directly may be your best answer. Good luck.


I am very happy to have found your site. I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to get any answers for, at least not from anybody here in San Diego. I would deeply appreciate any help or direction you can give me on this - - I've attached a PDF file with a couple of images made from the original 4x5 negatives. In both these negs, Ernie Lombardi is receiving some sort of award. The Brooklyn Dodgers are pictured in one, and the other has the NY Giants in it.  My first question concerns the three men presenting Lombardi with this "award". Is there any way that you could identify these men and their place in baseball history? The second question is, what year could this photo have been taken? The varied sizes of the players, small crowd, and striped socks would lead one to think this was a war-time exhibition game. What year the game was played and for what Lombardi was receiving this award, is still a puzzle. Any information on this or a direction as to where to search would be greatly appreciated.

NetShrine:  We're guessing that the years are between 1943-47.  Best bets being 1943 or 1947 - - with Lombardi getting an award for the Batting Title of '42 (if it's 1943) or having a day for his retirement (if it's 1947).  No idea who the three men are though. Have you tried the folks at www.sabr.org yet?  They may be able to help you better.  Good luck.


I'm trying to locate an old friend, Jeff Cox. He played back in the 80's for the Oakland A's for a short time. He also was a minor league manager for the Richmond Braves and the Ottawa Lynx. I would greatly appreciate any info you can find. I'd like to know if he's still managing and for whom.

NetShrine:  Sounds like he's in Montreal:  http://tsn.sportingnews.com/baseball/teams/expos/20010105-p.html  - you could contact him via the Expos.


Who holds the Phillies record for the most career home runs by second basemen?

NetShrine:  Juan Samuel.


I was wondering if you could help me with the answer to any or all of these questions:

-Who was the last Red to hit an inside-the-park homer?
-Who was the last Red to steal home?
-Who was the last Red to hit 4 doubles in one game?
-Who was the last Reds outfielder to record 3 putouts in one inning?
-Who was the last (if any) Reds outfielder to record 3 assists in one game?
  (I think maybe Dmitri Young did it Opening Day '99)
-Who holds the Reds record for most sac flies in a season?
-Who holds the Reds record for most career leadoff home runs?

If you could help me with any of these, I'd really appreciate it.  Keep up the good work on the website!

NetShrine:  Sorry, we don't have this info. Try Chris Hurr @ buckeye@one.net of http://w3.one.net/~buckeye/index.htm he may be able to help.  Good luck.


I love your site, and will be spending some time in the near future going through it in detail.  I think that the idea of "levels" would serve the HOF quite well, and certainly is the way to view the greatest.  There should be no real "cut-off line" just degrees of honor, depending on how thorough the "appreciator" wants to be. Now, the obligatory whine - which is what makes all of this fun. Roy White, Willie Davis and Lee May in a higher category than Tony Oliva? Huh?  Let me repeat, huh?

NetShrine:  Other than the Immortals section, no category is higher than any other - just different.  Personally, I'll always remember when Rod Carew was a Free Agent and being chased by the teams in the field.  The Yankees had an interest, and were urged to sign him, because in the words of the late Thurman Munson "The three toughest guys to get out in the AL, in all his years of playing, were Frank Robinson, Tony Olivia and Rod Carew."  Nice company.


I love to catalogue boxscores from games and am wondering if you can point me to a site that lists boxscores from Detroit Tigers games back through the 60's to present as well as World Series boxscores.  Thanks for your help.

NetShrine:  Try www.sabr.org - - it won't have the boxes, but, we bet they can direct you to the right source.


I am a sports columnist.  I am thinking about a column regarding the logic of the appeal play in baseball.  No other sport, so far as I can tell, dictates that an official is to witness an infraction of the rules and not make a call unless asked to rule by the opposing team, e.g., missing a base, leaving early after a caught fly or batting out of turn.  Here is my question: what do you believe was the original logic of baseball's rules-makers in writing the rule this way?  Why not just have the ump make the call, as the national high school association has done?  Again, my focus is on the original reasons for the appeal play.  Can you help? 

NetShrine:  According to David Nemec's "The Rules of Baseball" - On Swings and Checked Swings, Rule 9.02 (c) is fairly recent.  For over half a century after MLB began using 2 umps in a game in the early 1900's, the team on the field no recourse when the Home Plate Ump missed on a swing (as he did not have to accept the request for appeal).  With the Addendum the defensive team could force the appeal. Personally, I do not view the appeal on a tag up as a reversal in decision.  Hope this helps.  Good luck with the feature. 


Could you please tell who was the oldest baseball player to get a hit in a major league game.

NetShrine:  Minnie Minoso had a hit at age 53, a single, on 9/12/76.  He was the oldest.